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Android isn't bad at all Who are you replying to? The comment you replied to makes the arguable point that vendor add-ons are a problem. That is a debatable po

Android isn't bad at all Who are you replying to? The comment you replied to makes the arguable point that vendor add-ons are a problem. That is a debatable point as each iteration of Android has essentially usurped functionality pioneered in those skins. but you need to understand why it's so popular - it lets just about every phone maker produce incredibly cheap handsets Gah! Where are all of these "incredibly cheap" handsets? ZTE? Huwei? The overwhelming bulk of Android handsets (edit: I realize this is worded poorly, but I mean relative to sales -- the top selling handsets are predominately the top tier devices) are priced similarly to the iPhone. And why are you making uninformed comments about Android on a board where the overwhelming majority of participants are very informed on the market? And ignoring the fact that Samsung, HTC, and Motorola probably spend more on software developer, per handset, than a Windows Phone license, even if they went for Windows Phone licenses is that $5-$15 license fee going to really be the difference between "incredibly cheap" and not incredibly cheap? This Android == the low end nonsense is garbage. It is hubris of the worst kind. Terrible. Just terrible. I'm going full jerk now, threatening my glorious Avg:5 score, but save comments like that for Engadget stories.

dagw 14y ago
Where are all of these "incredibly cheap" handsets? ZTE? Huwei? The overwhelming bulk of Android handsets are priced similarly to the iPhone. Not even close to true. Having a look at my favorite purveyor of phones (www.katshing.se) I see that, by far, the most expensive phone they sell is the 64GB 4s and the only phones that are close to the price of a 16GB 4s is HTC One X, the Galaxy Note and the preorder for the Galaxy SIII. In the half-the-price-of-the-4s category you have some pretty decent phones like the HTC OneV, Experia Arc S and Samsung Galaxy S plus. Halving the price again (~$250) and you can get a Samsung Galaxy Ace, HTC Explorer or Wildfire S or Motorola Defy Mini. The simple truth is that probably half the people I know with android phones have android phones because they where a lot cheaper than the iPhone. The fact that you can buy a great smart phone from a brand name like Samsung for $200 unlocked and off contract is incredibly enticing to a large number of people, and Android helped make that happen.
- huggyface 14y ago
  Not even close to true. Having a look at my favorite purveyor of phones I didn't put a specific disclaimer for Sweden, I suppose. the most expensive phone they sell is the 64GB 4s Incredibly few people buy the 64GB variant. Since we're so fond of anecdotes, I know zero people who bought the 64GB iPhone 4S. I see no reason, at all, why that data point has any relevance. The top selling Android phones, worldwide, are the Galaxy Notes, SII's, Razrs, and other premium devices. Low cost devices -- despite your anecdotes -- haven't even made a dent in the top 10 yet. It is a completely irrelevant aspect, thus far. That will change, of course, but when someone buys a Razr or an SII or a Note or a One X, they aren't choosing a discount option.
  - glhaynes 14y ago
    The top selling Android phones, worldwide, are the Galaxy Notes, SII's, Razrs, and other premium devices. Low cost devices -- despite your anecdotes -- haven't even made a dent in the top 10 yet. But there are a million low-end models with little to differentiate them, so it's not surprising at all that none of them are in the top 10. That by itself doesn't mean that the "Non-Top 10" category isn't 99% of the market. (It's not, of course; I'm just saying that looking at the top 10 doesn't give you any more info on the total makeup of the market than the comment you're so vociferously responding to.)
  - woobar 14y ago
    I didn't put a specific disclaimer for Sweden, I suppose. Looks like you did not put US specific disclaimer. A lot (most?) of people from outside the US pay full price for their phones. And price is important to them. Also, I would like to see your source for the wordwide top selling Adnroid phones.
kalleboo 14y ago
Look at the chart of device models: http://opensignalmaps.com/reports/fragmentation.php http://opensignalmaps.com/reports/fragmentation.php While the top 10 most popular devices are all high end, just look at how much of the market the low-end, low-volume devices make up. It's at least a fourth of all devices, and I imagine if you count former top-end devices which sell for cheaper now, half the market was sold below the high-end. Even among the popular devices there at lots of cheaper ones in there, Samsung along have a raft of lower cost devices that are quite popular on there (Ace, Marvel, Galaxy Y)
- idspispopd 14y ago
  As you've noted the 'top 10' isn't a good weathervane on what's actually making up the bulk of sales, top 10 is the statistical mode, not the average. The revenue figures for each company paint a clear picture of what their average phone sale is, and a better clue to where the bulk of the phones are predominantly sold. A review of the IDC data shows that 'other' brands make up 27%, that's a share larger than Apple's, and testament to just how many fringe product brands there are out there, let alone the listless number of smartphone models that exist under each of those fringe brands. Additionally, as you've noted top 10 is restricted to a certain time period, again not a good indicator for total sales of a handset. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/samsung-apple-continue-smartphone-marketshare-tug-of-war/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/samsung-apple-continu...
  - huggyface 14y ago
    Where "other" includes Motorola, LG, Sony, etc. Fringe brands? Give me a break. The revenue figures for each company paint a clear picture of what their average phone sale is, and a better clue to where the bulk of the phones are predominantly sold. Where is that picture clearly painted? You conveniently jumped a massive chasm in your other post, inventing numbers, and came up with "75% the price of an iPhone". Again, "incredibly cheap"? This is a ridiculous conversation.
idspispopd 14y ago
The market reality doesn't align with your personal observation, all producers have their high end smartphone, but a simple review of revenue reveals the bulk purchases are cheaper smart phones. Just because your personal view may see a large number of expensive android devices doesn't reflect the reality of the population. The figures however do show us what is going on, the android sale is the 'cheap/low end' phone. Samsung have a 29.1% marketshare of smart phones by volume. (IDC) Apple has a 24.2% marketshare of smart phone by volume. (IDC) The others don't crack 10% each. Samsung won't reveal revenue for Android, for reasons that will become obvious shortly, but they do reveal their entire mobile division has 17B revenue. This division shipped 144.4M mobile phones, 42M of those were smart phones, a figure slightly lower than that belong to Android. We can be lenient and pretend that the bulk of the 17B revenue were from pricier Android devices, even though this would be fallacious. Apple's iPhone business (not iPod/iPad) has revenue of 23B, already exceeding Samsung's entire mobile business. Samsung lead Android sales commanding ~40% of the Android market share. Meaning that the largest seller of Android smartphones, who sells more smartphones than any other producer including Apple is making 75% the amount of revenue of Apple, on not just their Android business, but their total mobile division where Android makes up a fraction of it. This can only mean one thing. The average selling price of those Android devices is well below 75% of the average iPhone sale. (Rather likely far lower when you consider that the 17B figure comprises of all of Samsung's sales.)
- idspispopd 14y ago
  A note regarding the burial of the above because it's inconvenient: These are the facts, they speak for themselves. The data is the latest from May IDC, and the revenue results are the publicly announced data from the last quarter from both Samsung & Apple. The only thing you're burying is your head in the sand.
  - huggyface 14y ago
    If anyone downvoted you it was because the presentation of rigor doesn't come anywhere close to being satisfied.

dagw 14y ago

Where are all of these "incredibly cheap" handsets? ZTE? Huwei? The overwhelming bulk of Android handsets are priced similarly to the iPhone. Not even close to true. Having a look at my favorite purveyor of phones (www.katshing.se) I see that, by far, the most expensive phone they sell is the 64GB 4s and the only phones that are close to the price of a 16GB 4s is HTC One X, the Galaxy Note and the preorder for the Galaxy SIII. In the half-the-price-of-the-4s category you have some pretty decent phones like the HTC OneV, Experia Arc S and Samsung Galaxy S plus. Halving the price again (~$250) and you can get a Samsung Galaxy Ace, HTC Explorer or Wildfire S or Motorola Defy Mini. The simple truth is that probably half the people I know with android phones have android phones because they where a lot cheaper than the iPhone. The fact that you can buy a great smart phone from a brand name like Samsung for $200 unlocked and off contract is incredibly enticing to a large number of people, and Android helped make that happen.

huggyface 14y ago
Not even close to true. Having a look at my favorite purveyor of phones I didn't put a specific disclaimer for Sweden, I suppose. the most expensive phone they sell is the 64GB 4s Incredibly few people buy the 64GB variant. Since we're so fond of anecdotes, I know zero people who bought the 64GB iPhone 4S. I see no reason, at all, why that data point has any relevance. The top selling Android phones, worldwide, are the Galaxy Notes, SII's, Razrs, and other premium devices. Low cost devices -- despite your anecdotes -- haven't even made a dent in the top 10 yet. It is a completely irrelevant aspect, thus far. That will change, of course, but when someone buys a Razr or an SII or a Note or a One X, they aren't choosing a discount option.
- glhaynes 14y ago
  The top selling Android phones, worldwide, are the Galaxy Notes, SII's, Razrs, and other premium devices. Low cost devices -- despite your anecdotes -- haven't even made a dent in the top 10 yet. But there are a million low-end models with little to differentiate them, so it's not surprising at all that none of them are in the top 10. That by itself doesn't mean that the "Non-Top 10" category isn't 99% of the market. (It's not, of course; I'm just saying that looking at the top 10 doesn't give you any more info on the total makeup of the market than the comment you're so vociferously responding to.)
- woobar 14y ago
  I didn't put a specific disclaimer for Sweden, I suppose. Looks like you did not put US specific disclaimer. A lot (most?) of people from outside the US pay full price for their phones. And price is important to them. Also, I would like to see your source for the wordwide top selling Adnroid phones.

kalleboo 14y ago

Look at the chart of device models: http://opensignalmaps.com/reports/fragmentation.php http://opensignalmaps.com/reports/fragmentation.php While the top 10 most popular devices are all high end, just look at how much of the market the low-end, low-volume devices make up. It's at least a fourth of all devices, and I imagine if you count former top-end devices which sell for cheaper now, half the market was sold below the high-end. Even among the popular devices there at lots of cheaper ones in there, Samsung along have a raft of lower cost devices that are quite popular on there (Ace, Marvel, Galaxy Y)

idspispopd 14y ago
As you've noted the 'top 10' isn't a good weathervane on what's actually making up the bulk of sales, top 10 is the statistical mode, not the average. The revenue figures for each company paint a clear picture of what their average phone sale is, and a better clue to where the bulk of the phones are predominantly sold. A review of the IDC data shows that 'other' brands make up 27%, that's a share larger than Apple's, and testament to just how many fringe product brands there are out there, let alone the listless number of smartphone models that exist under each of those fringe brands. Additionally, as you've noted top 10 is restricted to a certain time period, again not a good indicator for total sales of a handset. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/samsung-apple-continue-smartphone-marketshare-tug-of-war/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/samsung-apple-continu...
- huggyface 14y ago
  Where "other" includes Motorola, LG, Sony, etc. Fringe brands? Give me a break. The revenue figures for each company paint a clear picture of what their average phone sale is, and a better clue to where the bulk of the phones are predominantly sold. Where is that picture clearly painted? You conveniently jumped a massive chasm in your other post, inventing numbers, and came up with "75% the price of an iPhone". Again, "incredibly cheap"? This is a ridiculous conversation.

idspispopd 14y ago

The market reality doesn't align with your personal observation, all producers have their high end smartphone, but a simple review of revenue reveals the bulk purchases are cheaper smart phones. Just because your personal view may see a large number of expensive android devices doesn't reflect the reality of the population. The figures however do show us what is going on, the android sale is the 'cheap/low end' phone. Samsung have a 29.1% marketshare of smart phones by volume. (IDC) Apple has a 24.2% marketshare of smart phone by volume. (IDC) The others don't crack 10% each. Samsung won't reveal revenue for Android, for reasons that will become obvious shortly, but they do reveal their entire mobile division has 17B revenue. This division shipped 144.4M mobile phones, 42M of those were smart phones, a figure slightly lower than that belong to Android. We can be lenient and pretend that the bulk of the 17B revenue were from pricier Android devices, even though this would be fallacious. Apple's iPhone business (not iPod/iPad) has revenue of 23B, already exceeding Samsung's entire mobile business. Samsung lead Android sales commanding ~40% of the Android market share. Meaning that the largest seller of Android smartphones, who sells more smartphones than any other producer including Apple is making 75% the amount of revenue of Apple, on not just their Android business, but their total mobile division where Android makes up a fraction of it. This can only mean one thing. The average selling price of those Android devices is well below 75% of the average iPhone sale. (Rather likely far lower when you consider that the 17B figure comprises of all of Samsung's sales.)

idspispopd 14y ago
A note regarding the burial of the above because it's inconvenient: These are the facts, they speak for themselves. The data is the latest from May IDC, and the revenue results are the publicly announced data from the last quarter from both Samsung & Apple. The only thing you're burying is your head in the sand.
- huggyface 14y ago
  If anyone downvoted you it was because the presentation of rigor doesn't come anywhere close to being satisfied.