5 ms·

Why is it called the Ribbon? (2005)

38 points by susam 3y ago

aidenn0 3y ago
One place I worked started giving intentionally bad names to products in development so that nobody would ever call it that publicly. This was after two products were known too well by their mediocre internal name for anything marketing came up with to stick.
- stephen_g 3y ago
  On the other hand, sometimes internal names just turn out to be better than anything marketing can come up with, so using what was an internal nickname (as long as it’s good) can sometimes be the best way to name a product! That’s perhaps more of a reflection of the competence (or lack thereof) of the marketing departments concerned, but it’s happened for a couple of products I’ve worked for now!
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nolongerthere 3y ago
Its funny because I never thought about the name not making any sense. Somehow it just felt right.
bitwize 3y ago
The little area at the far right end of the Windows taskbar with the clock and tiny icons was referred to officially by Microsoft as the "notification area". But enough people mashed Ctrl+Alt+Del in Windows 9x, saw a process called "Systray", and figured out that it controlled the notification area that eventually the area became known as the "system tray", even in non-Windows environments like Linux DEs. The "system tray" was supposed to be a pop-out thing that resembled a shallow drawer (hence the "tray" name) and have some of the functions of the taskbar, but it was abandoned early in Windows 95's development. The Systray.exe program which was repurposed was the last vestige of that name and it kind of stuck. I think even Microsoft have given up on getting people to say "notification area". The "system tray" terminology is official in other environments like XFCE. Relevant Raymond Chen article: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030910-00/?p=42583 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030910-00/?p=42...
- userbinator 3y ago
  It even looks like a tray in the versions of Windows before the UI got flattened, a slightly recessed area.
- tom_ 3y ago
  It's referred to as the system tray in the Windows 11 UI.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  You can see the original system tray in action (not just a mockup) in the early Chicago betas http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58.html http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58.html
SoftTalker 3y ago
Whatever its name, it's what drove me away from MS Office. I found the traditional pull-down menus to be intuitive and to organize functions in a discoverable way. Every time I have to deal with ribbon-like interfaces, I'm lost. It's like walking into a supermarket and trying to find the roasted in-shell peanuts. They aren't with the snacks. They aren't with the nuts. They're on an end cap in the produce area, and the only way you find them is to just wander the whole store.
- userbinator 3y ago
  Agreed. It's much easier to scan an orderly list of text than a mixture of text and images that also change positions depending on how wide the window is.
- danybittel 3y ago
  The ribbon was invented when we had 4:3 monitors. Recently I helped my sister on a 16:9 laptop, yikes. The actual content of excel is left in a narrow long strip. Luckily it can be collapsed pretty easily.
  - jacobgkau 3y ago
    What would you think about a vertical ribbon? I've seen some programs offering sidebars that partially replicate the functionality of the ribbon, but I don't think I've seen any yet that let you just move the entire ribbon to the side.
    - danybittel 3y ago
      The ribbon has a fixed height. All it's elements have the same height, so you can arrange them side by side. If you have a ribbon on the side, the elements would need to have a fixed width. If you look at an office ribbon, it's going to be tricky. Probably better to use a single icon width, something like a photoshop toolbar.
    - al_borland 3y ago
      Office v.X on OS X, back around 2001 had a command pallet, as many OS X apps did in those days. It was basically a vertical ribbon, but in its own floating Window. It’s my favorite version of Office to this day. Oddly enough, Pages, Numbers, and Keynote still work this way (with the pallet as part of the windows) and I don’t like it as well now. I guess it’s all a matter of what a person gets used to over time.
danybittel 3y ago
There is a really great talk on how the ribbon was invented: https://youtu.be/Tl9kD693ie4?si=3o0PiiipTgqVQiYC https://youtu.be/Tl9kD693ie4?si=3o0PiiipTgqVQiYC (first of ten parts)
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
Jensen's blog or parts of it are still archived on different URLs, though not this post for some reason. Here's a related post about a talk he did The Story of the Ribbon with slides and video https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/jensenh/the-story-of-the-ribbon https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/jensenh/the-...
pbnjeh 3y ago
After being a heavy Excel user for a few years, I was away from using Excel while this change took place. It's been a long time, but as I recall it, when I then sat down to do something more intensive in Excel, I found a bunch of "muscle memory" actions failing; they'd also changed a number of shortcut key combinations! Serious Excel users could work the keyboard like an experienced Vi/m user. For example, when extensive manual data entry, editing, cleanup was necessary. A curse on those responsible for these interface changes. Serious Excel users, for one, bitched for good reason.
- robsh 3y ago
  Legacy keyboard shortcuts are still supported in Excel for menus long gone. For example Alt EAF is clear all formatting, and Alt EAA is clear all (values and formats).

38 points by susam 3y ago

One place I worked started giving intentionally bad names to products in development so that nobody would ever call it that publicly. This was after two products were known too well by their mediocre internal name for anything marketing came up with to stick.

stephen_g 3y ago
On the other hand, sometimes internal names just turn out to be better than anything marketing can come up with, so using what was an internal nickname (as long as it’s good) can sometimes be the best way to name a product! That’s perhaps more of a reflection of the competence (or lack thereof) of the marketing departments concerned, but it’s happened for a couple of products I’ve worked for now!

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nolongerthere 3y ago

Its funny because I never thought about the name not making any sense. Somehow it just felt right.

bitwize 3y ago

The little area at the far right end of the Windows taskbar with the clock and tiny icons was referred to officially by Microsoft as the "notification area". But enough people mashed Ctrl+Alt+Del in Windows 9x, saw a process called "Systray", and figured out that it controlled the notification area that eventually the area became known as the "system tray", even in non-Windows environments like Linux DEs. The "system tray" was supposed to be a pop-out thing that resembled a shallow drawer (hence the "tray" name) and have some of the functions of the taskbar, but it was abandoned early in Windows 95's development. The Systray.exe program which was repurposed was the last vestige of that name and it kind of stuck. I think even Microsoft have given up on getting people to say "notification area". The "system tray" terminology is official in other environments like XFCE. Relevant Raymond Chen article: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030910-00/?p=42583 https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20030910-00/?p=42...

userbinator 3y ago
It even looks like a tray in the versions of Windows before the UI got flattened, a slightly recessed area.
tom_ 3y ago
It's referred to as the system tray in the Windows 11 UI.
kalleboo 3y ago
You can see the original system tray in action (not just a mockup) in the early Chicago betas http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58.html http://toastytech.com/guis/chic58.html

SoftTalker 3y ago

Whatever its name, it's what drove me away from MS Office. I found the traditional pull-down menus to be intuitive and to organize functions in a discoverable way. Every time I have to deal with ribbon-like interfaces, I'm lost. It's like walking into a supermarket and trying to find the roasted in-shell peanuts. They aren't with the snacks. They aren't with the nuts. They're on an end cap in the produce area, and the only way you find them is to just wander the whole store.

userbinator 3y ago
Agreed. It's much easier to scan an orderly list of text than a mixture of text and images that also change positions depending on how wide the window is.
danybittel 3y ago
The ribbon was invented when we had 4:3 monitors. Recently I helped my sister on a 16:9 laptop, yikes. The actual content of excel is left in a narrow long strip. Luckily it can be collapsed pretty easily.
- jacobgkau 3y ago
  What would you think about a vertical ribbon? I've seen some programs offering sidebars that partially replicate the functionality of the ribbon, but I don't think I've seen any yet that let you just move the entire ribbon to the side.
  - danybittel 3y ago
    The ribbon has a fixed height. All it's elements have the same height, so you can arrange them side by side. If you have a ribbon on the side, the elements would need to have a fixed width. If you look at an office ribbon, it's going to be tricky. Probably better to use a single icon width, something like a photoshop toolbar.
  - al_borland 3y ago
    Office v.X on OS X, back around 2001 had a command pallet, as many OS X apps did in those days. It was basically a vertical ribbon, but in its own floating Window. It’s my favorite version of Office to this day. Oddly enough, Pages, Numbers, and Keynote still work this way (with the pallet as part of the windows) and I don’t like it as well now. I guess it’s all a matter of what a person gets used to over time.

danybittel 3y ago

There is a really great talk on how the ribbon was invented: https://youtu.be/Tl9kD693ie4?si=3o0PiiipTgqVQiYC https://youtu.be/Tl9kD693ie4?si=3o0PiiipTgqVQiYC (first of ten parts)

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

Jensen's blog or parts of it are still archived on different URLs, though not this post for some reason. Here's a related post about a talk he did The Story of the Ribbon with slides and video https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/jensenh/the-story-of-the-ribbon https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/jensenh/the-...

pbnjeh 3y ago

After being a heavy Excel user for a few years, I was away from using Excel while this change took place. It's been a long time, but as I recall it, when I then sat down to do something more intensive in Excel, I found a bunch of "muscle memory" actions failing; they'd also changed a number of shortcut key combinations! Serious Excel users could work the keyboard like an experienced Vi/m user. For example, when extensive manual data entry, editing, cleanup was necessary. A curse on those responsible for these interface changes. Serious Excel users, for one, bitched for good reason.

robsh 3y ago
Legacy keyboard shortcuts are still supported in Excel for menus long gone. For example Alt EAF is clear all formatting, and Alt EAA is clear all (values and formats).