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Yes, I completely agree with every point you made. It’s going to be so satisfying when all the AI safety people realize that their attempts to cram this protect

Yes, I completely agree with every point you made. It’s going to be so satisfying when all the AI safety people realize that their attempts to cram this protectionist/alarmist control down our throats are all for nothing, because there is an even stronger model that is totally open weights, and you can never put the genie back in the bottle!

a_wild_dandan 2y ago
[flagged]
aqfamnzc 2y ago
Hopefully they aren't able to cram it down our legislators' throats... Seems that's what really matters
ben_w 2y ago
> you can never put the genie back in the bottle That's specifically why OpenAI don't release weights, and why everyone who cares about safety talks about laws, and why Yud says the laws only matter if you're willing to enforce them internationally via air strikes. > It’s going to be so satisfying I won't be feeling Schadenfreude if a low budget group or individual takes an open weights model, does a white-box analysis to determine what it knows and to overcome any RLFH, in order to force it to work as an assistant helping walk them though the steps to make VX nerve agent. Given how old VX is, it's fairly likely all the info is on the public internet already, but even just LLMs-as-a-better-search / knowledge synthesis from disparate sources, that makes a difference, especially for domain specific "common sense": You don't need to know what to ask for, you can ask a model to ask itself a better question first.
- zzzzzzzzzz10 2y ago
  If some unhinged psycho want to build nerve agents and bombs I think it's laughable to believe an LLM will be the tool that makes a difference in enabling them to do so. As you said the information is already out there - getting info on how to do this stuff is not the barrier you think it is.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > I think it's laughable to believe an LLM will be the tool that makes a difference If you think it's "laughable", what do you think tools are for? Every tool makes some difference, that's why they get used. The better models are already at the level of a (free) everything-intern, and it's very easy to use them for high-level control of robotics. > getting info on how to do this stuff is not the barrier you think it is. Knowing what question you need to ask in order to not kill oneself in the process, however, is. Secondary school chemistry lessons taught me two distinct ways to make chlorine using only things found in a normal kitchen; but the were taught in the context "don't do X or Y, that makes chlorine", not "here's some PPE, let's get to work".
    - abxytg 2y ago
      Uh oh -- we should ban this secondary school thing
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Interesting thing I've heard about humans, very bad at noticing conjunctions such as "but". Wonder if it's true?
  - chasd00 2y ago
    when all you want is to hurt then every tool looks like a weapon.

a_wild_dandan 2y ago

[flagged]

aqfamnzc 2y ago

Hopefully they aren't able to cram it down our legislators' throats... Seems that's what really matters

ben_w 2y ago

> you can never put the genie back in the bottle That's specifically why OpenAI don't release weights, and why everyone who cares about safety talks about laws, and why Yud says the laws only matter if you're willing to enforce them internationally via air strikes. > It’s going to be so satisfying I won't be feeling Schadenfreude if a low budget group or individual takes an open weights model, does a white-box analysis to determine what it knows and to overcome any RLFH, in order to force it to work as an assistant helping walk them though the steps to make VX nerve agent. Given how old VX is, it's fairly likely all the info is on the public internet already, but even just LLMs-as-a-better-search / knowledge synthesis from disparate sources, that makes a difference, especially for domain specific "common sense": You don't need to know what to ask for, you can ask a model to ask itself a better question first.

zzzzzzzzzz10 2y ago
If some unhinged psycho want to build nerve agents and bombs I think it's laughable to believe an LLM will be the tool that makes a difference in enabling them to do so. As you said the information is already out there - getting info on how to do this stuff is not the barrier you think it is.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > I think it's laughable to believe an LLM will be the tool that makes a difference If you think it's "laughable", what do you think tools are for? Every tool makes some difference, that's why they get used. The better models are already at the level of a (free) everything-intern, and it's very easy to use them for high-level control of robotics. > getting info on how to do this stuff is not the barrier you think it is. Knowing what question you need to ask in order to not kill oneself in the process, however, is. Secondary school chemistry lessons taught me two distinct ways to make chlorine using only things found in a normal kitchen; but the were taught in the context "don't do X or Y, that makes chlorine", not "here's some PPE, let's get to work".
  - abxytg 2y ago
    Uh oh -- we should ban this secondary school thing
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Interesting thing I've heard about humans, very bad at noticing conjunctions such as "but". Wonder if it's true?
- chasd00 2y ago
  when all you want is to hurt then every tool looks like a weapon.