5 ms·

You're looking at the statistics wrong. I can't be bothered to dig in to your link to figure out why, but it's plainly obvious that there's not some huge 93% of

by throwaway22032 3y ago

You're looking at the statistics wrong. I can't be bothered to dig in to your link to figure out why, but it's plainly obvious that there's not some huge 93% of people who never drive out of their town. It's probably more like - on 7% of days people drive more than 30 miles, that is to say, basically everyone does it, just not every day.

_aavaa_ 3y ago
Sure, perhaps I could have been more clear with wording (as could the government's website). But the point stands; for the overwhelming majority of the population range anxiety is just that, and anxiety about range rather than a fact-based analysis of the car's ability to meet their needs.
- kelipso 3y ago
  No, lol. If 5 days out the year I need to make a 400 mile trip, and tons of people do this for Thanksgiving and Christmas, so don't act like this is some strange thing, I am not getting a new car for this. The range anxiety is derived from facts, so stop pretending otherwise.
  - _aavaa_ 3y ago
    I am not pretending that it's a strange thing to do, or that people don't do it. My point is that people don't do it every day. That's a fact. People sometimes drive a 400 mile trip for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Fact. EV being a bad choice because the 2 trips a year that someone makes are longer than it's range: opinion and not fact. First, that's trading the convenience and cost saving associated with the thing you do 98% of the time, with a minor inconvenience for the 2% case. Second, a 400 mile trip will easily take 6 hours of straight driving. At some point you're going to make a pit stop, even if it's to refill on gas since 400 miles is pushing it for a gas car. So the real question is how much longer is that one stop you make (and I highly doubt it will be just one)? Model 3s will charge to full in 25-30 minutes at a supercharger. So the inconvenience is 30 minutes minus however long your break would have anyway. Infrastructure on highways exists, here's just tesla's superchargers [0], and here's all the level 3 chargers [1]. So no, the range anxiety is not based on facts. [0]: https://www.tesla.com/findus https://www.tesla.com/findus [1]: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations
    - kelipso 3y ago
      The inconveniences are still very real. The trip distances follow a power law, e.g. 1000 mile trip every 3 years, 400 mile trip twice a year, 100 mile trip 10 times a year, etc. Another example of inconvenience, the Teslas trapped in the road with no batteries this winter has convinced me never to go near a pure EV for at least 10 years. The infrastructure and technology is certainly not here now and the infrastructure won't be widely used for 10 years at least. I will let you all be the beta testers.
      - _aavaa_ 3y ago
        > The trip distances follow a power law I'm sure they do. We disagree about whether the long tail should be handled by 1) buying a car which can handle it at the cost of the other 99% of the time, or 2) plane, train, renting a car, or extending your existing driving breaks to recahrge. > the Teslas trapped in the road with no batteries this winter As the stories themselves pointed out back then, many of the new owners did not know that preconditioning was something they had to do before being able to charge. That alone greatly exacerbated the problem.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  I apologise if this comes across as insulting, but this is a bit silly. My oven/hob is large enough to cook a roast dinner because I do it enough times that it's useful to me. Most days I use one or two pots to cook basic meals. It's not "anxiety" that drives me to have a full size oven, it's a superior product for me that allows me to cook meals that I want to cook.
  - _aavaa_ 3y ago
    Yeah I agree. If the choice is between a gas stove with 5 burners plus over and an induction hot plate, then you'd be justified. But that's a poor analogy because the electric car isn't missing the oven. No analogy though, how often have you in the past five years driven more than 240 miles in one go without the posibility to stop and recharge? If you do it often, then yeah electric cars are not for you yet. But again that's not most people's usage of their car. Yeah there's people who go out in the wilderness with their SUV or jeep and a bunch of jerry cans, but they're a rounding error compared to the people who drive 20 miles for their daily commute.
    - throwaway22032 3y ago
      I actually have had severe issues with an EV and I had a Tesla with a 300 mile rated range. I had to park up somewhere overnight and charge from a wall outlet (more than once). I had to charge it to full every time before I went home (no on street charging, on the road often I'd be parked too far from the house to plug it in) because otherwise on my next journey I might need to take 30+ min out or a detour to charge. Overall the acceleration was great but charging was just a huge faff compared to a car or van that I can "charge to full" basically anywhere in sub 5 mins. The range of an EV is not the same as the range of an ICE because of that difference, you actually need a longer range for a comparable experience.
      - _aavaa_ 3y ago
        I too would find that very annoying and would be hesitent to buy one without consistent access to charging where I lived if I was driving a lot.

_aavaa_ 3y ago

Sure, perhaps I could have been more clear with wording (as could the government's website). But the point stands; for the overwhelming majority of the population range anxiety is just that, and anxiety about range rather than a fact-based analysis of the car's ability to meet their needs.

kelipso 3y ago
No, lol. If 5 days out the year I need to make a 400 mile trip, and tons of people do this for Thanksgiving and Christmas, so don't act like this is some strange thing, I am not getting a new car for this. The range anxiety is derived from facts, so stop pretending otherwise.
- _aavaa_ 3y ago
  I am not pretending that it's a strange thing to do, or that people don't do it. My point is that people don't do it every day. That's a fact. People sometimes drive a 400 mile trip for Thanksgiving or Christmas. Fact. EV being a bad choice because the 2 trips a year that someone makes are longer than it's range: opinion and not fact. First, that's trading the convenience and cost saving associated with the thing you do 98% of the time, with a minor inconvenience for the 2% case. Second, a 400 mile trip will easily take 6 hours of straight driving. At some point you're going to make a pit stop, even if it's to refill on gas since 400 miles is pushing it for a gas car. So the real question is how much longer is that one stop you make (and I highly doubt it will be just one)? Model 3s will charge to full in 25-30 minutes at a supercharger. So the inconvenience is 30 minutes minus however long your break would have anyway. Infrastructure on highways exists, here's just tesla's superchargers [0], and here's all the level 3 chargers [1]. So no, the range anxiety is not based on facts. [0]: https://www.tesla.com/findus https://www.tesla.com/findus [1]: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations
  - kelipso 3y ago
    The inconveniences are still very real. The trip distances follow a power law, e.g. 1000 mile trip every 3 years, 400 mile trip twice a year, 100 mile trip 10 times a year, etc. Another example of inconvenience, the Teslas trapped in the road with no batteries this winter has convinced me never to go near a pure EV for at least 10 years. The infrastructure and technology is certainly not here now and the infrastructure won't be widely used for 10 years at least. I will let you all be the beta testers.
    - _aavaa_ 3y ago
      > The trip distances follow a power law I'm sure they do. We disagree about whether the long tail should be handled by 1) buying a car which can handle it at the cost of the other 99% of the time, or 2) plane, train, renting a car, or extending your existing driving breaks to recahrge. > the Teslas trapped in the road with no batteries this winter As the stories themselves pointed out back then, many of the new owners did not know that preconditioning was something they had to do before being able to charge. That alone greatly exacerbated the problem.
throwaway22032 3y ago
I apologise if this comes across as insulting, but this is a bit silly. My oven/hob is large enough to cook a roast dinner because I do it enough times that it's useful to me. Most days I use one or two pots to cook basic meals. It's not "anxiety" that drives me to have a full size oven, it's a superior product for me that allows me to cook meals that I want to cook.
- _aavaa_ 3y ago
  Yeah I agree. If the choice is between a gas stove with 5 burners plus over and an induction hot plate, then you'd be justified. But that's a poor analogy because the electric car isn't missing the oven. No analogy though, how often have you in the past five years driven more than 240 miles in one go without the posibility to stop and recharge? If you do it often, then yeah electric cars are not for you yet. But again that's not most people's usage of their car. Yeah there's people who go out in the wilderness with their SUV or jeep and a bunch of jerry cans, but they're a rounding error compared to the people who drive 20 miles for their daily commute.
  - throwaway22032 3y ago
    I actually have had severe issues with an EV and I had a Tesla with a 300 mile rated range. I had to park up somewhere overnight and charge from a wall outlet (more than once). I had to charge it to full every time before I went home (no on street charging, on the road often I'd be parked too far from the house to plug it in) because otherwise on my next journey I might need to take 30+ min out or a detour to charge. Overall the acceleration was great but charging was just a huge faff compared to a car or van that I can "charge to full" basically anywhere in sub 5 mins. The range of an EV is not the same as the range of an ICE because of that difference, you actually need a longer range for a comparable experience.
    - _aavaa_ 3y ago
      I too would find that very annoying and would be hesitent to buy one without consistent access to charging where I lived if I was driving a lot.