5 ms·

Currently our house in a modest corner of So Cal is at a ridiculous valuation. I happen to like our house and I think it's nice, but it's not that nice, and thi

Currently our house in a modest corner of So Cal is at a ridiculous valuation. I happen to like our house and I think it's nice, but it's not that nice, and this feels like a bubble getting bigger. I know there's a lot of controversy over Proposition 13 and its budgetary effects, but we'd be getting a whopping bill this year if it weren't in effect, and this is a factor not within our control.

alephnerd 2y ago
Salaries are also much higher now. The average salary for an RN in LA is around $90k, a dentist around $300k, a SWE at around $150k, Aerospace Eng at around $115k, Pharma Researcher at around $140k, etc. If you've been working in a white collar industry for a decade, and your partner has as well, you'll end up being able to afford a pretty large down.
- mynameishere 2y ago
  Ten years for a dual income to afford a down payment. Nuts. With ten years of savings I could buy two houses where I live, and I don't make that much. How people in CA stand it I don't know.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    If you're Asian American (like me and a large proportion of White Collar Workers) your options are very few and far between. Furthermore, it's very easy to find a job in these hubs, not just in Software but also in Hardware, Finance, Accounting, Pharma, Aerospace, and Government. In addition, lots of people just like the weather. Polar vortexes, hurricanes, and snow does suck. And finally, there are some people who might not feel as safe in Middle America due to their identity (racial, sexual, or gender). This isn't to say that Middle America sucks (it doesn't), but people make rational choices about where they live, and it's insulting to say otherwise. You have valid reasons to live where you live, and I listed those of mine and my peers.
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      That sorting is a gift to the right wing. If we could get 100,000 or so people who are barely hanging on in blue states into affordable purple states, Donald a trump and the Republican Party as we know it would disappear like a bad dream.
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        Problem is, not enough city people dare to move to those areas, no matter how cheap they are. The areas' reputations precede them. I made the move from the Bay Area to a rural "red" area, but I can feel safe to do it because I'm white, straight, and appear non-threatening to the culture here. Even though I'm a flaming liberal, I can still kind of blend in. (Side note: It's amazing the kind of shit strangers will say to you out of the blue because they assume something about your politics because of your appearance.) I wouldn't expect many of my South- and East-Asian engineering friends from the Bay Area to just YOLO and buy a house next door to me. Heck, I've asked some of them, and yes, the culture gap weighs heavily on their minds.
        selimthegrim 2y ago
        I have lived in New Orleans for a decade, and the culture gap has quite honestly been the last thing on my mind.
        082349872349872 2y ago
        > It's amazing the kind of shit strangers will say to you out of the blue because they assume something about your politics A US-based colleague reports that what he doesn't like about traveling north of the Mason-Dixon line is when certain people hear his accent and assume his politics match theirs. (as to New Orleans: it has the reputation it does because the catholic french history makes it much less WASPy than neighbouring regions, in many ways)
    - nkurz 2y ago
      > If you're Asian American (like me and a large proportion of White Collar Workers) your options are very few and far between. Off topic, but do I take it that you've tried living elsewhere and it didn't work well for you?
ToucanLoucan 2y ago
My humble home purchased 6 years ago for $200k is now supposedly worth $350k. Ridiculous. I'm drowning in offers from banks begging to refinance my home, but I got a ridiculously low rate during COVID and I refuse. Also I don't want to be underwater if the market ever comes to it's fucking senses.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > I'm drowning in offers from banks begging to refinance my home, but I got a ridiculously low rate during COVID and I refuse And this is why decreasing interest rates will only raise housing prices EVEN higher. There's too much demand but not enough supply. And we don't physically have enough to build houses, nor the ability to bring guest workers to build for us due to USCIS incompetence.
gedy 2y ago
People bitch about Prop 13, but it _does_ go up every year, but does not track the dumb valuation cycles in California. There's a nice place nearish me that sold for like 3 million dollars, which is crazy, but the property tax is like $36000 a year. That seems crazy as well.
- Balgair 2y ago
  For those outside of CA: Prop 13's text says the following: * require that properties be taxed at no more than 1 percent of their full cash value shown on the 1975-1976 assessment rolls and limit annual increases of assessed (taxable) value to the inflation rate or 2 percent, whichever was less. (this was the text of the prop in 1978) * upon the transfer of properties, allow them to be reassessed at one percent of their sale price and reset the limit on annual increases of assessed value. * prohibit the state legislature from enacting new taxes on the value or sale of properties. * require a two-thirds vote of the state legislature to increase non-property taxes. * require local governments to refer special taxes to the ballot and require a two-thirds vote of electors. * make the state government responsible for distributing property tax revenue among local governments. Meaning that if you bought your house in 1975 for the median price of $24,300, you'd pay 243 dollars. Now, the next year (ignoring inflation, because I can't get a good source for that), you'd pay 1.02X of that, so $247.86 in property tax (Tell me if I am wrong here!). In 2024, if you carry it all out, you'd be paying $641.23 in property tax. Now, look at the median home price in California in 2024. Its $860,300. That growth rate between 1975 and 2024 is, on average, about 8.1% for the median home (again, tell me if I'm wrong here). If you bought the median home in 2024, you's then pay $8,630 in property tax. So, if you've lived in your home since 1975, 1) good for you! Keep up whatever you're doing health-wise and 2) you're paying $7961.77 less than your next door neighbor that just bought the house. They are paying ~13.4X in taxes than you are. Not 13.4% more, but 1,340% more. This issue has come up with my parents. They've lived in the house since 1978. Nice little place. Dad got it for ~70k and they pay about 650 for taxes these days. Mortgage was paid off years ago. The house next door has gone through about owners in about seven years. It's always young couples with maybe one kid and usually one more on the way. The houses go for about 1.1M now. So, they are paying about 11k in taxes. Then the mortgage comes along. Lets use a mortgage rate of 5% and assume they managed to get 20% down for the sake of argument here (it varies a lot, I know). Their mortgage is 57k a year, so with taxes about 68k a year, round it to a nice 70k a year with garbage and water and whatnot. Or about 5,800 a month. Versus my folks who are at about $200 a month. About a 29X difference. (I know I screwed up something here, sorry). The very second there is any kind of wobble in their finances, these couples have to sell. There is no room for error with these young people. An accident, a plumbing problem, any kind of health issue. Boom, done. My folks try to help out as they can, they baby sit sometimes, my Dad does a lot of free labor and lends out his tools, helps buy sod and supplies when he can, they cook for these couples too. The neighborhood tries to help the young folks out. But at nearly a 6k/mo drain, guys, there's not much you can really do. Fortunately the house only ever goes up in price, so when they do move out to live with family again they aren't underwater. But that just sets up the next young couple for another disaster too. It's honestly tragic.

alephnerd 2y ago

Salaries are also much higher now. The average salary for an RN in LA is around $90k, a dentist around $300k, a SWE at around $150k, Aerospace Eng at around $115k, Pharma Researcher at around $140k, etc. If you've been working in a white collar industry for a decade, and your partner has as well, you'll end up being able to afford a pretty large down.

mynameishere 2y ago
Ten years for a dual income to afford a down payment. Nuts. With ten years of savings I could buy two houses where I live, and I don't make that much. How people in CA stand it I don't know.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  If you're Asian American (like me and a large proportion of White Collar Workers) your options are very few and far between. Furthermore, it's very easy to find a job in these hubs, not just in Software but also in Hardware, Finance, Accounting, Pharma, Aerospace, and Government. In addition, lots of people just like the weather. Polar vortexes, hurricanes, and snow does suck. And finally, there are some people who might not feel as safe in Middle America due to their identity (racial, sexual, or gender). This isn't to say that Middle America sucks (it doesn't), but people make rational choices about where they live, and it's insulting to say otherwise. You have valid reasons to live where you live, and I listed those of mine and my peers.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    That sorting is a gift to the right wing. If we could get 100,000 or so people who are barely hanging on in blue states into affordable purple states, Donald a trump and the Republican Party as we know it would disappear like a bad dream.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Problem is, not enough city people dare to move to those areas, no matter how cheap they are. The areas' reputations precede them. I made the move from the Bay Area to a rural "red" area, but I can feel safe to do it because I'm white, straight, and appear non-threatening to the culture here. Even though I'm a flaming liberal, I can still kind of blend in. (Side note: It's amazing the kind of shit strangers will say to you out of the blue because they assume something about your politics because of your appearance.) I wouldn't expect many of my South- and East-Asian engineering friends from the Bay Area to just YOLO and buy a house next door to me. Heck, I've asked some of them, and yes, the culture gap weighs heavily on their minds.
      - selimthegrim 2y ago
        I have lived in New Orleans for a decade, and the culture gap has quite honestly been the last thing on my mind.
      - 082349872349872 2y ago
        > It's amazing the kind of shit strangers will say to you out of the blue because they assume something about your politics A US-based colleague reports that what he doesn't like about traveling north of the Mason-Dixon line is when certain people hear his accent and assume his politics match theirs. (as to New Orleans: it has the reputation it does because the catholic french history makes it much less WASPy than neighbouring regions, in many ways)
  - nkurz 2y ago
    > If you're Asian American (like me and a large proportion of White Collar Workers) your options are very few and far between. Off topic, but do I take it that you've tried living elsewhere and it didn't work well for you?

ToucanLoucan 2y ago

My humble home purchased 6 years ago for $200k is now supposedly worth $350k. Ridiculous. I'm drowning in offers from banks begging to refinance my home, but I got a ridiculously low rate during COVID and I refuse. Also I don't want to be underwater if the market ever comes to it's fucking senses.

alephnerd 2y ago
> I'm drowning in offers from banks begging to refinance my home, but I got a ridiculously low rate during COVID and I refuse And this is why decreasing interest rates will only raise housing prices EVEN higher. There's too much demand but not enough supply. And we don't physically have enough to build houses, nor the ability to bring guest workers to build for us due to USCIS incompetence.

gedy 2y ago

People bitch about Prop 13, but it _does_ go up every year, but does not track the dumb valuation cycles in California. There's a nice place nearish me that sold for like 3 million dollars, which is crazy, but the property tax is like $36000 a year. That seems crazy as well.

Balgair 2y ago
For those outside of CA: Prop 13's text says the following: * require that properties be taxed at no more than 1 percent of their full cash value shown on the 1975-1976 assessment rolls and limit annual increases of assessed (taxable) value to the inflation rate or 2 percent, whichever was less. (this was the text of the prop in 1978) * upon the transfer of properties, allow them to be reassessed at one percent of their sale price and reset the limit on annual increases of assessed value. * prohibit the state legislature from enacting new taxes on the value or sale of properties. * require a two-thirds vote of the state legislature to increase non-property taxes. * require local governments to refer special taxes to the ballot and require a two-thirds vote of electors. * make the state government responsible for distributing property tax revenue among local governments. Meaning that if you bought your house in 1975 for the median price of $24,300, you'd pay 243 dollars. Now, the next year (ignoring inflation, because I can't get a good source for that), you'd pay 1.02X of that, so $247.86 in property tax (Tell me if I am wrong here!). In 2024, if you carry it all out, you'd be paying $641.23 in property tax. Now, look at the median home price in California in 2024. Its $860,300. That growth rate between 1975 and 2024 is, on average, about 8.1% for the median home (again, tell me if I'm wrong here). If you bought the median home in 2024, you's then pay $8,630 in property tax. So, if you've lived in your home since 1975, 1) good for you! Keep up whatever you're doing health-wise and 2) you're paying $7961.77 less than your next door neighbor that just bought the house. They are paying ~13.4X in taxes than you are. Not 13.4% more, but 1,340% more. This issue has come up with my parents. They've lived in the house since 1978. Nice little place. Dad got it for ~70k and they pay about 650 for taxes these days. Mortgage was paid off years ago. The house next door has gone through about owners in about seven years. It's always young couples with maybe one kid and usually one more on the way. The houses go for about 1.1M now. So, they are paying about 11k in taxes. Then the mortgage comes along. Lets use a mortgage rate of 5% and assume they managed to get 20% down for the sake of argument here (it varies a lot, I know). Their mortgage is 57k a year, so with taxes about 68k a year, round it to a nice 70k a year with garbage and water and whatnot. Or about 5,800 a month. Versus my folks who are at about $200 a month. About a 29X difference. (I know I screwed up something here, sorry). The very second there is any kind of wobble in their finances, these couples have to sell. There is no room for error with these young people. An accident, a plumbing problem, any kind of health issue. Boom, done. My folks try to help out as they can, they baby sit sometimes, my Dad does a lot of free labor and lends out his tools, helps buy sod and supplies when he can, they cook for these couples too. The neighborhood tries to help the young folks out. But at nearly a 6k/mo drain, guys, there's not much you can really do. Fortunately the house only ever goes up in price, so when they do move out to live with family again they aren't underwater. But that just sets up the next young couple for another disaster too. It's honestly tragic.