5 ms·

Mentally stimulating work plays key role in staving off dementia, study finds

63 points by prmph 3y ago

OJFord 3y ago
It's not really explained in TFA, but it has been considered at least: > Prof Gill Livingston [said] “It is not just that more educated people do more cognitively stimulating jobs – they do – but cognitive stimulation in work through problem solving and new situations has an effect by itself.
- EVyesnoyesnoyes 3y ago
  Knowing more languages also helps and could be the same effect: The more interconnections you have, the more you can compensate. A bike can be reached through different types of bikes, different names of bikes, different experiences with bikes.
  - yawboakye 3y ago
    anecdotally, i find this statement quite dubious. i speak two languages natively but only think in one. two other languages i know proficiently, and they never come to mind naturally except when intentionally called into service. anything you can reference to help me read or interpret the signs? thanks.
    - EVyesnoyesnoyes 3y ago
      https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/speaking-second-language-shows-benefits-alzheimers/#:~:text=Previous%20studies%20have%20shown%20that,around%20a%204.5%2Dyear%20delay https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/speaking-second-la.... Its not the point about you thinking in multiply languages, its about your brain being able to find a connection to something.
      - yawboakye 3y ago
        still dubious. anyone who speaks multiple languages still thinks in one. and object recognition in the real world doesn’t require language. abstract concept recognition requires language, but it’s always in the language the concept was encountered.
        EVyesnoyesnoyes 3y ago
        I often enough formulate sentences in the language i'm writing. And plenty of times i remembered a word only in english but not in german. Like a few month back i was looking at an escalator and though mmmhh escalator whats the german word for it? Took me ages to remember Rolltreppe Is your mother tonge english? Because i do not think that just having learned a language will help you here a lot. I speak english at my workplace every day while am a german in germany.
- nojs 3y ago
  Yeah, the old correlation causation strikes again - unfortunately the study itself is paywalled [1]. Realistically how could you possibly prove this isn’t just a case of “people with better brains are less likely to get dementia and also inclined towards more cognitively demanding jobs”? 1. https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000209353 https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000209353
krumpet 3y ago
I've always wondered what the health trade-off is for a less mentally stimulating role if it dramatically reduces your stress levels and offers better work/life balance.
- JR1427 3y ago
  On a similar note, I've often wondered what the optimum amount of exercise is if you don't like exercise, but want to maximise your time not exercising.
  - mecsred 3y ago
    Luckily this is a very common situation for people, so there is a good body of research to answer your question! A good answer is about 30 mins of moderate cardio activity a day: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/physical-activity https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/physical-ac....
    - krumpet 3y ago
      What is the time period for this statement? I'm assuming that must be weekly, but everywhere else in the report, the units are daily. "Adults aged 18–64 years should do at least 150–300 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic physical activity;" EDIT: Added quotes for clarity.
      - mecsred 3y ago
        Yes it's very confusingly worded. "->Should do ... ->Or ... Throughout the week." Not sure why they worded it that way, maybe adults with busy schedules engage less with _ per day than _ per week recommendations.
  - mikrl 3y ago
    Don’t the government of various countries recommend 90 mins of cardio per week and 2-3 strength training sessions on top of 30-60 minutes of daily light activity? I feel like they would be the ones to answer the optimal exercise question over a huge number of people.
jerlam 3y ago
Use it or lose it, as they say. One of my parents has decided that retirement means to live entirely within their comfort zone, avoiding any kind of changes or challenges to their life. Not surprisingly, they have begun to show signs of dementia.
- boringg 3y ago
  But also young people want old people to retire these days. If I was old I'd stay working and keep my mind agile though. :)
  - scottLobster 3y ago
    Young people want old people to retire because the economy sucks for a lot of them so they develop a misplaced zero-sum mentality, thinking these old people are somehow taking up their "slot". There's also a sense that those in leadership are generally behind the times (see Biden's momentary slip when he said he's a "20th century president" before he corrected himself), and are doing more harm than good by staying in. By contrast I've worked with engineers north of 70 who blow me out of the water. Hard to say those guys don't deserve to be there. For my part, if I ever do fully retire I intend to play a lot of high difficulty strategy games with people, so I should be set :) There's going to be some sick GenX/Millenial LAN parties once we hit retirement age.
    - boringg 3y ago
      "There's going to be some sick GenX/Millenial LAN parties once we hit retirement age." That's right didn't even think of that. Yeah I think that's what I find concerning --> 'so they develop a misplaced zero-sum mentality, thinking these old people are somehow taking up their "slot"' because its such a me vs them. A lot of older people are pretty talented and have seen a lot more.
  - jerlam 3y ago
    You'd probably want to transition the older people to mentor and guide the younger people, but not to do the same exact work. But that's a different job description; some older people may not want to do that kind of work, nor would the company want to pay for both the old and the young.
Bostonian 3y ago
An alternative explanation for the finding is that high IQ people are more likely to have mentally stimulating work and can lose more of their mental capacity without appearing demented. You can't easily change peoples' jobs, but you could do a randomized trial where the treatment group is encouraged to take up a mentally stimulating hobby, say Scrabble, chess or bridge. It would be great if taking up such a hobby staved off dementia, but I am skeptical that it does. 'Researchers have found that the more people use their brains at work, the better they seem to be protected against thinking and memory problems that come with older age. In a study of more than 7,000 Norwegians in 305 occupations, those who held the least mentally demanding jobs had a 66% greater risk of mild cognitive impairment, and a 31% greater risk of dementia, after the age of 70 compared with those in the most mentally taxing roles. “It really shows how important work is,” said Dr Trine Edwin, a geriatrician and postdoctoral fellow at Oslo university hospital. “It’s important to go to work and use your brain, and to use your brain to learn new things.”'
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Yeah, agreed, mentally capable people would be less likely to want to do repetitive and non stimulating work.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

63 points by prmph 3y ago

It's not really explained in TFA, but it has been considered at least: > Prof Gill Livingston [said] “It is not just that more educated people do more cognitively stimulating jobs – they do – but cognitive stimulation in work through problem solving and new situations has an effect by itself.

EVyesnoyesnoyes 3y ago
Knowing more languages also helps and could be the same effect: The more interconnections you have, the more you can compensate. A bike can be reached through different types of bikes, different names of bikes, different experiences with bikes.
- yawboakye 3y ago
  anecdotally, i find this statement quite dubious. i speak two languages natively but only think in one. two other languages i know proficiently, and they never come to mind naturally except when intentionally called into service. anything you can reference to help me read or interpret the signs? thanks.
  - EVyesnoyesnoyes 3y ago
    https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/speaking-second-language-shows-benefits-alzheimers/#:~:text=Previous%20studies%20have%20shown%20that,around%20a%204.5%2Dyear%20delay https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/speaking-second-la.... Its not the point about you thinking in multiply languages, its about your brain being able to find a connection to something.
    - yawboakye 3y ago
      still dubious. anyone who speaks multiple languages still thinks in one. and object recognition in the real world doesn’t require language. abstract concept recognition requires language, but it’s always in the language the concept was encountered.
      - EVyesnoyesnoyes 3y ago
        I often enough formulate sentences in the language i'm writing. And plenty of times i remembered a word only in english but not in german. Like a few month back i was looking at an escalator and though mmmhh escalator whats the german word for it? Took me ages to remember Rolltreppe Is your mother tonge english? Because i do not think that just having learned a language will help you here a lot. I speak english at my workplace every day while am a german in germany.
nojs 3y ago
Yeah, the old correlation causation strikes again - unfortunately the study itself is paywalled [1]. Realistically how could you possibly prove this isn’t just a case of “people with better brains are less likely to get dementia and also inclined towards more cognitively demanding jobs”? 1. https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000209353 https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000209353

krumpet 3y ago

I've always wondered what the health trade-off is for a less mentally stimulating role if it dramatically reduces your stress levels and offers better work/life balance.

JR1427 3y ago
On a similar note, I've often wondered what the optimum amount of exercise is if you don't like exercise, but want to maximise your time not exercising.
- mecsred 3y ago
  Luckily this is a very common situation for people, so there is a good body of research to answer your question! A good answer is about 30 mins of moderate cardio activity a day: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/physical-activity https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/physical-ac....
  - krumpet 3y ago
    What is the time period for this statement? I'm assuming that must be weekly, but everywhere else in the report, the units are daily. "Adults aged 18–64 years should do at least 150–300 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic physical activity;" EDIT: Added quotes for clarity.
    - mecsred 3y ago
      Yes it's very confusingly worded. "->Should do ... ->Or ... Throughout the week." Not sure why they worded it that way, maybe adults with busy schedules engage less with _ per day than _ per week recommendations.
- mikrl 3y ago
  Don’t the government of various countries recommend 90 mins of cardio per week and 2-3 strength training sessions on top of 30-60 minutes of daily light activity? I feel like they would be the ones to answer the optimal exercise question over a huge number of people.

jerlam 3y ago

Use it or lose it, as they say. One of my parents has decided that retirement means to live entirely within their comfort zone, avoiding any kind of changes or challenges to their life. Not surprisingly, they have begun to show signs of dementia.

boringg 3y ago
But also young people want old people to retire these days. If I was old I'd stay working and keep my mind agile though. :)
- scottLobster 3y ago
  Young people want old people to retire because the economy sucks for a lot of them so they develop a misplaced zero-sum mentality, thinking these old people are somehow taking up their "slot". There's also a sense that those in leadership are generally behind the times (see Biden's momentary slip when he said he's a "20th century president" before he corrected himself), and are doing more harm than good by staying in. By contrast I've worked with engineers north of 70 who blow me out of the water. Hard to say those guys don't deserve to be there. For my part, if I ever do fully retire I intend to play a lot of high difficulty strategy games with people, so I should be set :) There's going to be some sick GenX/Millenial LAN parties once we hit retirement age.
  - boringg 3y ago
    "There's going to be some sick GenX/Millenial LAN parties once we hit retirement age." That's right didn't even think of that. Yeah I think that's what I find concerning --> 'so they develop a misplaced zero-sum mentality, thinking these old people are somehow taking up their "slot"' because its such a me vs them. A lot of older people are pretty talented and have seen a lot more.
- jerlam 3y ago
  You'd probably want to transition the older people to mentor and guide the younger people, but not to do the same exact work. But that's a different job description; some older people may not want to do that kind of work, nor would the company want to pay for both the old and the young.

Bostonian 3y ago

An alternative explanation for the finding is that high IQ people are more likely to have mentally stimulating work and can lose more of their mental capacity without appearing demented. You can't easily change peoples' jobs, but you could do a randomized trial where the treatment group is encouraged to take up a mentally stimulating hobby, say Scrabble, chess or bridge. It would be great if taking up such a hobby staved off dementia, but I am skeptical that it does. 'Researchers have found that the more people use their brains at work, the better they seem to be protected against thinking and memory problems that come with older age. In a study of more than 7,000 Norwegians in 305 occupations, those who held the least mentally demanding jobs had a 66% greater risk of mild cognitive impairment, and a 31% greater risk of dementia, after the age of 70 compared with those in the most mentally taxing roles. “It really shows how important work is,” said Dr Trine Edwin, a geriatrician and postdoctoral fellow at Oslo university hospital. “It’s important to go to work and use your brain, and to use your brain to learn new things.”'

mewpmewp2 3y ago
Yeah, agreed, mentally capable people would be less likely to want to do repetitive and non stimulating work.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]