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China is ready to transition to electric vehicles, Americans are not. We dragged our feet and said “no EVs, infrastructure isn’t ready, too expensive,…” Now w

China is ready to transition to electric vehicles, Americans are not. We dragged our feet and said “no EVs, infrastructure isn’t ready, too expensive,…” Now we need protectionism to save our auto industry because in the end, we’ll take the cheaper solution

KptMarchewa 3y ago
Some regulation would help - like forbidding charging station to requiring apps or any form of payment that's not available without internet connection or external equipment.
- atonse 3y ago
  I can totally understand the "not required to install an app" but just so I'm clear, are you advocating for requiring charging stations to accept cash? Or just purchase without an app? Do we know if this is even a legitimate issue facing a lot of people? Meaning, is this an accessibility issue or a privacy issue? Because from my understanding, smartphone access is nearly ubiquitous nowadays across all income groups. But I could be wrong.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    I'm advocating for the same standards that gas stations have. Cash prepayment is not necessarily most important, but just accepting CCs is minimum required thing. >Meaning, is this an accessibility issue or a privacy issue? Because from my understanding, smartphone access is nearly ubiquitous nowadays across all income groups. But I could be wrong. Access is not the biggest problem, fragmentation and giant shittyness of the apps is. And the fragmentation is an unsolvable problems.
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      I'm pretty sure any card accepting POS is going to need an internet connection.
      - Nextgrid 3y ago
        Some cards can do transactions offline. Terminals can be configured to accept this (at the expense of increased risk). However, I'm pretty sure the app-based charging stations are all internet connected anyway, so I'm not sure if this is a big deal in practice.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  Hard to do when so much of the economy and people's careers is now based on "engagement" and spyware. The reason you need apps to pay at charging stations is because just like a lot of tech companies nowadays, they're not after money (or at least, not just money), they're after "engagement" and personal data.
  - KptMarchewa 3y ago
    And easy way to fix the situation is to forbid this. Gas station should not track you, the same should happen for charger.
rayiner 3y ago
It’s not “dragging our feet”; it’s momentum. Most Americans have had cars for generations now. Most Chinese still don’t have cars. We have a whole world built around the particulars of ICE vehicles, including where we live. (In China, most people don’t live a couple hours drive from grandma’s house.) In China the biggest competitor to EVs is bicycles. In America, it’s the whole spectrum of ICE vehicles that everyone already owns, including the hand-me-down cars many people have who couldn’t afford a new car.
nebula8804 3y ago
If they make better cars then shouldn't the free market just accept this? The thing about ICE cars is that they are really good. Many EV advocates seem to overlook this. The EVs replacing them have to be better in all metrics. We just aren't there. As an anecdote, I've been renting EVs for a day to try out a handful of ones I can afford. 1. Mache: buggy software, painful seating for tall people(center console hard plastics poke your leg and its painful), mediocre sound, somewhat ugly 2. Bolt EUV: cramped back window, slow charging, poor headroom for tall passengers, poor luggage space, ugly 3. ID4: terrible software, poor value for the price, strange reliability issues. 4. Tesla: high insurance costs, high repair costs, cheap interior, poor seats. My comparison car is a 2006 Mazda 3. A car I really love. At the end of each day I ask myself, is there something i'd miss that my old car had? So far the answer has been yes.
- latentcall 3y ago
  Agree with this. When I can take an EV from Colorado across Nebraska into Iowa on one charge they’ll be ready in my eyes. The range right now just isn’t useful. There are also barely any charging stations along this route, if at all.
  - _aavaa_ 3y ago
    > in my eyes. The range right now just isn’t useful. According to the department of transportation, only 7% of drivers drive more than 30 miles a day: https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips The base model 3 has an epa range of 270 miles. Say you cut that in half, that's 135 miles a day. If you personally drive more than 135 miles in one day and don't want to stop to charge, and have serious range anxiety, then EVs aren't ready for you. But your experience and requirements are far outside the norm. > There are also barely any charging stations along this route, if at all. I have not driven that route, but there seem to be plenty of level3 chargers all along that route: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations#/find/route?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&ev_levels=3&start=colorodo&end=ceder%20rapids https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations#/find/ro...
    - 2y ago

KptMarchewa 3y ago

Some regulation would help - like forbidding charging station to requiring apps or any form of payment that's not available without internet connection or external equipment.

atonse 3y ago
I can totally understand the "not required to install an app" but just so I'm clear, are you advocating for requiring charging stations to accept cash? Or just purchase without an app? Do we know if this is even a legitimate issue facing a lot of people? Meaning, is this an accessibility issue or a privacy issue? Because from my understanding, smartphone access is nearly ubiquitous nowadays across all income groups. But I could be wrong.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  I'm advocating for the same standards that gas stations have. Cash prepayment is not necessarily most important, but just accepting CCs is minimum required thing. >Meaning, is this an accessibility issue or a privacy issue? Because from my understanding, smartphone access is nearly ubiquitous nowadays across all income groups. But I could be wrong. Access is not the biggest problem, fragmentation and giant shittyness of the apps is. And the fragmentation is an unsolvable problems.
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure any card accepting POS is going to need an internet connection.
    - Nextgrid 3y ago
      Some cards can do transactions offline. Terminals can be configured to accept this (at the expense of increased risk). However, I'm pretty sure the app-based charging stations are all internet connected anyway, so I'm not sure if this is a big deal in practice.
Nextgrid 3y ago
Hard to do when so much of the economy and people's careers is now based on "engagement" and spyware. The reason you need apps to pay at charging stations is because just like a lot of tech companies nowadays, they're not after money (or at least, not just money), they're after "engagement" and personal data.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  And easy way to fix the situation is to forbid this. Gas station should not track you, the same should happen for charger.

rayiner 3y ago

It’s not “dragging our feet”; it’s momentum. Most Americans have had cars for generations now. Most Chinese still don’t have cars. We have a whole world built around the particulars of ICE vehicles, including where we live. (In China, most people don’t live a couple hours drive from grandma’s house.) In China the biggest competitor to EVs is bicycles. In America, it’s the whole spectrum of ICE vehicles that everyone already owns, including the hand-me-down cars many people have who couldn’t afford a new car.

nebula8804 3y ago

If they make better cars then shouldn't the free market just accept this? The thing about ICE cars is that they are really good. Many EV advocates seem to overlook this. The EVs replacing them have to be better in all metrics. We just aren't there. As an anecdote, I've been renting EVs for a day to try out a handful of ones I can afford. 1. Mache: buggy software, painful seating for tall people(center console hard plastics poke your leg and its painful), mediocre sound, somewhat ugly 2. Bolt EUV: cramped back window, slow charging, poor headroom for tall passengers, poor luggage space, ugly 3. ID4: terrible software, poor value for the price, strange reliability issues. 4. Tesla: high insurance costs, high repair costs, cheap interior, poor seats. My comparison car is a 2006 Mazda 3. A car I really love. At the end of each day I ask myself, is there something i'd miss that my old car had? So far the answer has been yes.

latentcall 3y ago
Agree with this. When I can take an EV from Colorado across Nebraska into Iowa on one charge they’ll be ready in my eyes. The range right now just isn’t useful. There are also barely any charging stations along this route, if at all.
- _aavaa_ 3y ago
  > in my eyes. The range right now just isn’t useful. According to the department of transportation, only 7% of drivers drive more than 30 miles a day: https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips https://nhts.ornl.gov/vehicle-trips The base model 3 has an epa range of 270 miles. Say you cut that in half, that's 135 miles a day. If you personally drive more than 135 miles in one day and don't want to stop to charge, and have serious range anxiety, then EVs aren't ready for you. But your experience and requirements are far outside the norm. > There are also barely any charging stations along this route, if at all. I have not driven that route, but there seem to be plenty of level3 chargers all along that route: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations#/find/route?fuel=ELEC&ev_levels=dc_fast&ev_levels=3&start=colorodo&end=ceder%20rapids https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity-locations#/find/ro...
  - 2y ago