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Fair enough, those all sound much better than what actually happened (although massive border walls are easier to say than do, and the current Tsar might lack f

Fair enough, those all sound much better than what actually happened (although massive border walls are easier to say than do, and the current Tsar might lack for Cossacks without Chechens?) Running the numbers, I'm still impressed with what was historically managed: country pop(m) deaths(k) ratio USSR 290 50 0,17 India 361 1000 2,8 Yugoslavia 23,5 135 5,7 by these numbers, Gorbachev's devolution worked about 15 times better than Mountbatten's. > "...Enjoy, I'm out!" Did Yeltsin really get handed a bad situation, or did he grab one? I'm calling it as: ломаешь, покупаешь. Re: Molotov, the fight against imperialism took somewhat longer than expected, according to https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#Page_62 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/48612/48612-h/48612-h.htm#Pa... > In the geniuses Lenin and Trotzky, the Bolshevik movement found its leadership. Lenin had no use for democracy as it was known in America. To him it was a sham, a front for the great capitalist trusts, which—even though the capitalists themselves might not know it—were doomed to get bigger on a shrinking market, until international capitalist war, bankruptcy, and working-class revolution was the result. Lenin was as sure that this would happen as he was that the sun would rise the next morning. The only dispute was the matter of timing; a few Bolshevik pessimists thought that the capitalist world might last into the 1920's. I'd say that the USSR owed its existence to the German Empire and the British Empire having gotten into a Sith Master/Apprentice game in 1914 (and then their descendants in 1939...) which the Russian Empire (as part of the global British imperial strategy of "let's you and him fight") got dragged into. So, as pure fantasy: in a brighter future (a прекрасное далёко?) instead of also playing Sith Master/Apprentice, the post-{Great Patriotic War,WWII} US and USSR would have converged on something closer to a western european social democratic model, where competing corporations tackled the problems they were suited for, and collective congresses tackled the problems they were suited for. Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqOo_bZ4AYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqOo_bZ4AYE

mamonster 3y ago
Sorry, did not see you responded, responding late. >Gorbachev's devolution worked about 15 times better than Mountbatten's. Oh, I'm not arguing about that. I was making more of an objective case, sorry if it wasn't clear, I think the British decolonialization was handled horribly. But Gorbachev already had the benefit of hindsight and he was kind of the initiator of a whole lot of it, whereas Mounbatten was basically handed a hot potato by Atlee(and here Churchill escapes criticism even though some of his behavior throughout his carrier made the Labor rapid decolonization inevitable). >US and USSR would have converged on something closer to a western european social democratic model There is a very interesting book kind of related to this, The Affirmative Action Empire by Terry Martin. A lot of parallels between the US and USSR in terms of what actually happened. >current Tsar might lack for Cossacks without Chechens? The unfortunate reality of the Ukraine War seems to be(according to Russians I keep in contact with) that the Varangian Guard/Swiss Mercenary thesis for Chechens, which was sold and shilled by pro-Putin mouthpieces for the last 20 years as part of the reconciliation, is completely destroyed for the ordinary russian. Akhmat and all other "commandos" are viewed as tiktokers by the majority of russians, it seems. There will be a lot of ethnic tension due to that, I think. >I'd say that the USSR owed its existence to the German Empire and the British Empire The classic Russian historiographical view(i.e most Russian historians) is that some sort of civil war was basically inevitable in some capacity after the loss in the Russo-Japanese War(and the absolutely horrible way it was conducted), but it could've maybe ended up in a highly depowered monarchic system without WW1, instead of outright communism. >Did Yeltsin really get handed a bad situation, or did he grab one? Yeltsin did grab it with both his hands, the comment was more about how pathetic Gorbachev's behavior was during that time. As soon as he left office he basically set up shop doing historical revisionism with the Gorbachev foundation about how "actually here is why perestroika was awesome" whilst everything went to shit around him(on the basis largely of his own policies and his dilapidation of the Soviet state).
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  That all makes sense; I probably won't have anything new to say until I've checked out Martin's book (as well as Jaimoukha's on the Caucasus, as recommended by alephnerd)... Thanks very much for the reply! (I enjoy multi-{day,week} convos, but HN makes them difficult to continue) EDIT: OK, I guess one thing: as to "Cossacks" I'd meant the analogy to be use against domestic, not external, enemies; maybe I'm reading too much between the lines when I hear rumours of Chechens involved in violent altercations throughout the RF but never being prosecuted?

mamonster 3y ago

Sorry, did not see you responded, responding late. >Gorbachev's devolution worked about 15 times better than Mountbatten's. Oh, I'm not arguing about that. I was making more of an objective case, sorry if it wasn't clear, I think the British decolonialization was handled horribly. But Gorbachev already had the benefit of hindsight and he was kind of the initiator of a whole lot of it, whereas Mounbatten was basically handed a hot potato by Atlee(and here Churchill escapes criticism even though some of his behavior throughout his carrier made the Labor rapid decolonization inevitable). >US and USSR would have converged on something closer to a western european social democratic model There is a very interesting book kind of related to this, The Affirmative Action Empire by Terry Martin. A lot of parallels between the US and USSR in terms of what actually happened. >current Tsar might lack for Cossacks without Chechens? The unfortunate reality of the Ukraine War seems to be(according to Russians I keep in contact with) that the Varangian Guard/Swiss Mercenary thesis for Chechens, which was sold and shilled by pro-Putin mouthpieces for the last 20 years as part of the reconciliation, is completely destroyed for the ordinary russian. Akhmat and all other "commandos" are viewed as tiktokers by the majority of russians, it seems. There will be a lot of ethnic tension due to that, I think. >I'd say that the USSR owed its existence to the German Empire and the British Empire The classic Russian historiographical view(i.e most Russian historians) is that some sort of civil war was basically inevitable in some capacity after the loss in the Russo-Japanese War(and the absolutely horrible way it was conducted), but it could've maybe ended up in a highly depowered monarchic system without WW1, instead of outright communism. >Did Yeltsin really get handed a bad situation, or did he grab one? Yeltsin did grab it with both his hands, the comment was more about how pathetic Gorbachev's behavior was during that time. As soon as he left office he basically set up shop doing historical revisionism with the Gorbachev foundation about how "actually here is why perestroika was awesome" whilst everything went to shit around him(on the basis largely of his own policies and his dilapidation of the Soviet state).

082349872349872 3y ago
That all makes sense; I probably won't have anything new to say until I've checked out Martin's book (as well as Jaimoukha's on the Caucasus, as recommended by alephnerd)... Thanks very much for the reply! (I enjoy multi-{day,week} convos, but HN makes them difficult to continue) EDIT: OK, I guess one thing: as to "Cossacks" I'd meant the analogy to be use against domestic, not external, enemies; maybe I'm reading too much between the lines when I hear rumours of Chechens involved in violent altercations throughout the RF but never being prosecuted?