9 ms·

"for engineers", proceeds to measure baking ingredients by volume...

fps-hero 2y ago
Absolutely cringe worthy. The painful thing is it’s just a simple conversation factor but I couldn’t take the article seriously after that. Speaking of reinventing, the article rediscovered the concept of bakers percentage, which is how bakers always describe recipes! Except baker’s percentage is unit agnostic and not susceptible to variations in volumetric measurement, ingredient density, and non-universal cup sizes.
- progbits 2y ago
  But it isn't just a conversion factor exactly for the reasons you state: a cup of flour will be different weight based on brand, how much it settled in the bag etc. Always have to deal with weights.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - blowski 2y ago
    Do those factors also affect how much volume you need?
    - currency 2y ago
      Baking is literally chemistry. You don't get consistent results if you measure a powder of quite variable density by volume instead of mass.
      - explaininjs 2y ago
        You also don't get consistent results if you assume the type of flour, atmospheric humidity, baking conditions, etc etc. etc. will be the exact same as the recipe author's and simply blindly follow the exact measurements because "precision!". The best approach is to watch a video that clearly demonstrates how the product should look and feel at every point along the process, and do what you can to imitate that - even if it means leaving your scales and cups in the cupboard.
        eichin 2y ago
        Right, but you can successfully course correct if you have a reproducible measurement, instead of one that varies by 20% each time you make it (source: Cooks Illustrated magazine on angel food cake, did experiments on how much variation cup measurements of the same flour had - given their audience, probably preaching to the choir, but it was at least a decade ago...)
        explaininjs 2y ago
        If you know how the right amount feels, it really does not matter one bit how far off your initial measurement is. You start with an amount too low, and you add more until it feels right. If the amount you start with is 24% too low vs 20% too low bears no significance. Obviously you shouldn't start with an amount so far off as to be too high, but again that would never happen if you are going by feel.
    - chihuahua 2y ago
      You want the correct amount by weight. Since volume (for the same weight) varies depending on several factors, it follows that those factors affect how much volume you need. The technique used for measuring "1 cup" affects how much weight you get in 1 cup. This is in addition to the type of flour, clumping, how densely it was packed in the bag, etc.
- icegreentea2 2y ago
  Heh, engineering is being about as precise and accurate as needed. Knowing that your taking a shortcut and shrugging and saying "this is easier and still works" is the peak of engineering.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
    Right? There's some misunderstanding that engineering is about precise measurements and reproducible results. That's a scientist, not an engineer. An engineer is the person who gets the job done and the thing built, and if it doesn't kill someone or explode and start a fire, then that's all good. But I think treating cooking as any of the STEM subjects is wrong. Cooking is an art. It has to please your senses and senses are not scientific instruments, they're subjective and inaccurate. Recipes are only templates and you need to use the brain to fill in the blanks: if I tell you to add two onions in a stew, can't you use your noggin to decide whether your onions are too small, and so you need to add more than two, or too large and so you need to add fewer? Will it ruin the stew if you add three onions, or one and a half? How many traditional dishes are the result of cooking another dish with what ingredients were at hand, or the result of mixing two things that were previously not eaten together?
BlackFly 2y ago
As opposed to cooks, who love measurements like - a carrot - four cloves of garlic - an onion - yolk of one medium egg - salt to taste because cooking isn't a science and precise measurements are generally worse than useless. If you spend more of your time trying to perfect the measurement instead of paying attention to the texture and flavor then you are cooking very well. People insist baking is different, but it really isn't; the margins for measurements are wide enough that with a bit of experience eying scoops of everything is an acceptable strategy. You build more experience by making a few mistakes or having someone shows you the behaviors outside the margins, but for a first time recipe, sure stick to the instructions.
- geuis 2y ago
  It absolutely is different. It may not seem so to a non baker, but regular cooking has a lot more leeway. Baking consistently requires a much finer degree of control over the variables. The difference between "a pinch of baking powder" vs "5 grams of baking powder" is entirely different. In the first case, you're left wondering why pancakes came out good last time and why are they inedible this time. I'm no great cook or baker, but I've learned through trial and lots of error how to bake bread and a few other things. Get a scale and always convert to grams.
  - z2h-a6n 2y ago
    I disagree, as long as we're talking in ratios instead of absolute amounts. The difference between "a pinch of baking powder" vs "5 grams of baking powder" is about a factor of 20. I think the main differences between baking and other cooking are that: 1) There are often very large ratios of certain ingredients in baking which -- except for spices -- is not generally the case in other cooking; 2) You can often taste the food in an intermediate stage when cooking, and adjust the ratios -- e.g. for spices -- which is not generally as useful when baking. Of course using a scale is a good way to keep the ratios from getting too out of wack, and I usually do it too when baking and almost never when cooking.
    - ghaff 2y ago
derbOac 2y ago
I think measuring by mass is almost certainly more precise in theory, but in practice sometimes measuring by volume is easier to do, and therefore can be more accurate in practice sometimes. Most of the arguments about actual composition of ingredients (hydration of flour for example) and so forth can be extended to volume as well. Baking is also precise but it's not complex chemical synthesis. So I could flow with his attitude. What I've decided for myself is that the mass versus volume measurement really matters when the ingredient "measurable unit" size is very large compared to the amount needed for the recipe. So for something like granulated cane sugar in a muffin recipe, using mass versus volume probably won't matter very much, because the individual sugar crystals you are "counting" are very tiny compared to the amount you'd use in a recipe. There's probably going to be a bigger difference due to your impatience or the scale accuracy or whatnot than using volume versus mass. However, for something like whole walnuts, mass is going to be a lot more precise because there's potentially a lot of change between adding another 1 or 2 walnuts given the 1/3 cup you might need, they can shift around, etc. At least that's where I've come down on it for myself.

Absolutely cringe worthy. The painful thing is it’s just a simple conversation factor but I couldn’t take the article seriously after that. Speaking of reinventing, the article rediscovered the concept of bakers percentage, which is how bakers always describe recipes! Except baker’s percentage is unit agnostic and not susceptible to variations in volumetric measurement, ingredient density, and non-universal cup sizes.

progbits 2y ago
But it isn't just a conversion factor exactly for the reasons you state: a cup of flour will be different weight based on brand, how much it settled in the bag etc. Always have to deal with weights.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- blowski 2y ago
  Do those factors also affect how much volume you need?
  - currency 2y ago
    Baking is literally chemistry. You don't get consistent results if you measure a powder of quite variable density by volume instead of mass.
    - explaininjs 2y ago
      You also don't get consistent results if you assume the type of flour, atmospheric humidity, baking conditions, etc etc. etc. will be the exact same as the recipe author's and simply blindly follow the exact measurements because "precision!". The best approach is to watch a video that clearly demonstrates how the product should look and feel at every point along the process, and do what you can to imitate that - even if it means leaving your scales and cups in the cupboard.
      - eichin 2y ago
        Right, but you can successfully course correct if you have a reproducible measurement, instead of one that varies by 20% each time you make it (source: Cooks Illustrated magazine on angel food cake, did experiments on how much variation cup measurements of the same flour had - given their audience, probably preaching to the choir, but it was at least a decade ago...)
        explaininjs 2y ago
        If you know how the right amount feels, it really does not matter one bit how far off your initial measurement is. You start with an amount too low, and you add more until it feels right. If the amount you start with is 24% too low vs 20% too low bears no significance. Obviously you shouldn't start with an amount so far off as to be too high, but again that would never happen if you are going by feel.
  - chihuahua 2y ago
    You want the correct amount by weight. Since volume (for the same weight) varies depending on several factors, it follows that those factors affect how much volume you need. The technique used for measuring "1 cup" affects how much weight you get in 1 cup. This is in addition to the type of flour, clumping, how densely it was packed in the bag, etc.
icegreentea2 2y ago
Heh, engineering is being about as precise and accurate as needed. Knowing that your taking a shortcut and shrugging and saying "this is easier and still works" is the peak of engineering.
- YeGoblynQueenne 2y ago
  Right? There's some misunderstanding that engineering is about precise measurements and reproducible results. That's a scientist, not an engineer. An engineer is the person who gets the job done and the thing built, and if it doesn't kill someone or explode and start a fire, then that's all good. But I think treating cooking as any of the STEM subjects is wrong. Cooking is an art. It has to please your senses and senses are not scientific instruments, they're subjective and inaccurate. Recipes are only templates and you need to use the brain to fill in the blanks: if I tell you to add two onions in a stew, can't you use your noggin to decide whether your onions are too small, and so you need to add more than two, or too large and so you need to add fewer? Will it ruin the stew if you add three onions, or one and a half? How many traditional dishes are the result of cooking another dish with what ingredients were at hand, or the result of mixing two things that were previously not eaten together?

BlackFly 2y ago

As opposed to cooks, who love measurements like - a carrot - four cloves of garlic - an onion - yolk of one medium egg - salt to taste because cooking isn't a science and precise measurements are generally worse than useless. If you spend more of your time trying to perfect the measurement instead of paying attention to the texture and flavor then you are cooking very well. People insist baking is different, but it really isn't; the margins for measurements are wide enough that with a bit of experience eying scoops of everything is an acceptable strategy. You build more experience by making a few mistakes or having someone shows you the behaviors outside the margins, but for a first time recipe, sure stick to the instructions.

geuis 2y ago
It absolutely is different. It may not seem so to a non baker, but regular cooking has a lot more leeway. Baking consistently requires a much finer degree of control over the variables. The difference between "a pinch of baking powder" vs "5 grams of baking powder" is entirely different. In the first case, you're left wondering why pancakes came out good last time and why are they inedible this time. I'm no great cook or baker, but I've learned through trial and lots of error how to bake bread and a few other things. Get a scale and always convert to grams.
- z2h-a6n 2y ago
  I disagree, as long as we're talking in ratios instead of absolute amounts. The difference between "a pinch of baking powder" vs "5 grams of baking powder" is about a factor of 20. I think the main differences between baking and other cooking are that: 1) There are often very large ratios of certain ingredients in baking which -- except for spices -- is not generally the case in other cooking; 2) You can often taste the food in an intermediate stage when cooking, and adjust the ratios -- e.g. for spices -- which is not generally as useful when baking. Of course using a scale is a good way to keep the ratios from getting too out of wack, and I usually do it too when baking and almost never when cooking.
  - ghaff 2y ago

derbOac 2y ago

I think measuring by mass is almost certainly more precise in theory, but in practice sometimes measuring by volume is easier to do, and therefore can be more accurate in practice sometimes. Most of the arguments about actual composition of ingredients (hydration of flour for example) and so forth can be extended to volume as well. Baking is also precise but it's not complex chemical synthesis. So I could flow with his attitude. What I've decided for myself is that the mass versus volume measurement really matters when the ingredient "measurable unit" size is very large compared to the amount needed for the recipe. So for something like granulated cane sugar in a muffin recipe, using mass versus volume probably won't matter very much, because the individual sugar crystals you are "counting" are very tiny compared to the amount you'd use in a recipe. There's probably going to be a bigger difference due to your impatience or the scale accuracy or whatnot than using volume versus mass. However, for something like whole walnuts, mass is going to be a lot more precise because there's potentially a lot of change between adding another 1 or 2 walnuts given the 1/3 cup you might need, they can shift around, etc. At least that's where I've come down on it for myself.