4 ms·

If 90% of students have a good experience but the 10% of students have a similar experiences to the poster there, then I still think Lambda is another ethical d

by adeon 2y ago

If 90% of students have a good experience but the 10% of students have a similar experiences to the poster there, then I still think Lambda is another ethical disaster of a start-up. "It's better than a typical USA student loan" is a very low bar.

nolongerthere 2y ago
> "It's better than a typical USA student loan" is a very low bar. But that the literal alternative, so feels pretty fair to compare.
- sn9 2y ago
  Not with learning programming. You can simply self-teach. A bootcamp isn't a CS degree.
  - dukeyukey 2y ago
    Between smarts, motivation, and time most people cannot "simply self-teach". There's a reason education is such a massive industry, and entire professions exist around it.
    - sn9 2y ago
      I'm refuting the notion that your only choices are college degrees or bootcamps.
      - dukeyukey 2y ago
        There are absolutely other choices. But those choices won't work for the vast majority of people.
        sn9 2y ago
        There are also other careers with which you can make a good living. Not everything can be for everybody.
LMYahooTFY 2y ago
[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > You can't expect 100% of students to have a good time, and it's not obvious what an "ethical" success bar should be No, but you can expect none of them to have been lied to. > If Allred is an unscrupulous scammer, he forgot to do the greedy part. The guy is worth less than a lot (maybe most) FAANG SWEs The defense is he's a fraudster, but incompetent?
  - LMYahooTFY 2y ago
    > No, but you can expect none of them to have been lied to. The CFPB report really doesn't make this obvious. All I've seen in this thread and in the CFPB statement are claims with nothing to back them up. The worst I've seen is "100% cohort", which doesn't seem to condemn the whole program. > The defense is he's a fraudster, but incompetent? The defense is I'm having a difficult time finding actual evidence of fraud.
- alex_lav 2y ago
  > You can't expect 100% of students to have a good time, No one in this thread has suggested this.
  - LMYahooTFY 2y ago
    The guy I responded to said 10% having a bad time was an ethical disaster, so what's the bar? 1%? 9%?
    - alex_lav 2y ago
      Nope, that's not what they said. If 90% of students aren't _scammed_, but 10% are _scammed_, there is an ethical disaster. But at this point it's clear you either have some actual financial incentive/relationship with Lambda School, or you just don't want to be wrong. Either way, I don't think engaging any further will be fruitful.
dudeinjapan 2y ago
[flagged]
- willcipriano 2y ago
  No, beacuse if my alma mater loses it's endowment where will the fightin' sharks or whatever play?
- manfre 2y ago
  We should be going after all fraudsters. Happiness with a degree is unrelated to fraudulent advertising and sketchy/deceptive contacts. Most universities don't lie so blatantly about services provided to students or graduate job placement percentages.
  - dudeinjapan 2y ago
    The universities don't have to lie or make any promises, because they already have a monopoly on prestige.
- swozey 2y ago
  > 18th Century Polynesian Gender Studies You really had to use something as cringey as this ridiculous trope? Just go with underwater basket weaving or something less blatantly offensive to a portion of people while riding your high horse.
  - celdon25 2y ago
    Shutting down discussion of a topic that otherwise has merits because you got offended by the idea is how we got here. If you don’t like it you’re not forced to offer a valid rebuttal. You have the option to disagree or not. But taking the easy way out by shutting down the conversation just makes the situation worse for everybody. Nobody was on a high horse until you went there.
  - dudeinjapan 2y ago
    This is what my friend actually studied at Brown, so why is this offensive? It is a real field of study: https://pacific.socsci.uva.nl/besnier/pub/Polynesian_Gender_Liminality.pdf https://pacific.socsci.uva.nl/besnier/pub/Polynesian_Gender_...

by adeon 2y ago

nolongerthere 2y ago

> "It's better than a typical USA student loan" is a very low bar. But that the literal alternative, so feels pretty fair to compare.

sn9 2y ago
Not with learning programming. You can simply self-teach. A bootcamp isn't a CS degree.
- dukeyukey 2y ago
  Between smarts, motivation, and time most people cannot "simply self-teach". There's a reason education is such a massive industry, and entire professions exist around it.
  - sn9 2y ago
    I'm refuting the notion that your only choices are college degrees or bootcamps.
    - dukeyukey 2y ago
      There are absolutely other choices. But those choices won't work for the vast majority of people.
      - sn9 2y ago
        There are also other careers with which you can make a good living. Not everything can be for everybody.

LMYahooTFY 2y ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> You can't expect 100% of students to have a good time, and it's not obvious what an "ethical" success bar should be No, but you can expect none of them to have been lied to. > If Allred is an unscrupulous scammer, he forgot to do the greedy part. The guy is worth less than a lot (maybe most) FAANG SWEs The defense is he's a fraudster, but incompetent?
- LMYahooTFY 2y ago
  > No, but you can expect none of them to have been lied to. The CFPB report really doesn't make this obvious. All I've seen in this thread and in the CFPB statement are claims with nothing to back them up. The worst I've seen is "100% cohort", which doesn't seem to condemn the whole program. > The defense is he's a fraudster, but incompetent? The defense is I'm having a difficult time finding actual evidence of fraud.
alex_lav 2y ago
> You can't expect 100% of students to have a good time, No one in this thread has suggested this.
- LMYahooTFY 2y ago
  The guy I responded to said 10% having a bad time was an ethical disaster, so what's the bar? 1%? 9%?
  - alex_lav 2y ago
    Nope, that's not what they said. If 90% of students aren't _scammed_, but 10% are _scammed_, there is an ethical disaster. But at this point it's clear you either have some actual financial incentive/relationship with Lambda School, or you just don't want to be wrong. Either way, I don't think engaging any further will be fruitful.

dudeinjapan 2y ago

[flagged]

willcipriano 2y ago
No, beacuse if my alma mater loses it's endowment where will the fightin' sharks or whatever play?
manfre 2y ago
We should be going after all fraudsters. Happiness with a degree is unrelated to fraudulent advertising and sketchy/deceptive contacts. Most universities don't lie so blatantly about services provided to students or graduate job placement percentages.
- dudeinjapan 2y ago
  The universities don't have to lie or make any promises, because they already have a monopoly on prestige.
swozey 2y ago
> 18th Century Polynesian Gender Studies You really had to use something as cringey as this ridiculous trope? Just go with underwater basket weaving or something less blatantly offensive to a portion of people while riding your high horse.
- celdon25 2y ago
  Shutting down discussion of a topic that otherwise has merits because you got offended by the idea is how we got here. If you don’t like it you’re not forced to offer a valid rebuttal. You have the option to disagree or not. But taking the easy way out by shutting down the conversation just makes the situation worse for everybody. Nobody was on a high horse until you went there.
- dudeinjapan 2y ago
  This is what my friend actually studied at Brown, so why is this offensive? It is a real field of study: https://pacific.socsci.uva.nl/besnier/pub/Polynesian_Gender_Liminality.pdf https://pacific.socsci.uva.nl/besnier/pub/Polynesian_Gender_...