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> And yet the numpad people really seem to like is a straight grid. I'm a "numpad person", and you aren't one of us, you "eschew numpads", so why do you speak

by eviks 3y ago

> And yet the numpad people really seem to like is a straight grid. I'm a "numpad person", and you aren't one of us, you "eschew numpads", so why do you speak on our behalf? Also, people like a lot of suboptimal things, so what? Like, you really seem to like all these non sequiturs and using personal experiences in place of addresing an argument. What does this prove? > My original comment was literally my personal experiences and the reasons why I had those experiences. And my original replies were literally about everything but. They were about how humeric row was worse due to having to stretch and how regular numpad isn't as perfectly ergonomic etc. > on several devices for over 20 years and didn't enjoy it. That's what makes it relevant. But how does it, specifically? You still haven't answered the original question about how your unwillingness to remap numpads on your friend's keyboard is relevant to a web form where you don't need to remap anything, veering off into some other snark > It's like you're saying, "chocolate is objectively the best flavor of ice cream" and I'm saying I've had it a bunch over 20 years and still prefer vanilla. More like me saying "your fingers have different length, so a design that takes that into account is more ergonomic" and you saying you have 20 years of experience eating chocolate > You're right they didn't know the input field > Not uio So why are you trying to gaslight me into believing they exist when they don't? > and couldn't possibly work. That's again something you've made up, it could work: you track active input field type and switch to a numpad mode if it's numeric. Just like phones already do > You're clearly not interested in any bit of a productive conversation. For that you'd need to start saying something productive instead of measuring anger over the wire

vel0city 3y ago
> Not uio You're so toxically wanting to gaslight me you didn't even look at the keyboards in question to see that yes, they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. > I'm a "numpad person" And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123...
- eviks 3y ago
  > you didn't even look at the I did, both of the links, you're just again "toxically" shifting your ignorance unto me and replacing substantive conversation with personal attacks > they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. No they dont, both pics start with 789 as the top, which is unergonomic (even for "pure" numpad emulation that requires shifting all the /*-+ signs to unfamiliar locations), that's underutilizing your most ergonomic finger/key. And I've specifically mentioned "uio as 123", so you're just openly disingenious now claiming any uio nubers are fine > And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123... That's your fantasy again, of course I knew it's 789 on an unmodded PC numpad, I was typing on a keyboard with a numpad! But I'm also not as limited in my perspecive as to think that whatever exists is the best thing ever and perfectly reflects the inner desires of the people, so I have a different remap, though that's a minor thing you're trying to blow out of proprtion because you can't address the substance of the other claims
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > they do have the choice to use uio as numbers > No they dont They do. Not 123, but "they do have the choice to use uio as numbers". I say "they do have the choice to use uio as numbers". You say they don't. I look at the photo, and they have uio as 4, 5 6. I guess those aren't numbers to you, only 1, 2, 3 qualify as numbers. This is why I say your responses are toxic. You're literally telling me here they're not being used as numbers ("no they don't"), when they are being used as numbers, just not the specific numbers you're wanting here. The keys being shifted one row up from your idea to include the zero and period in the number pad is pretty much an immaterial difference to me here. This is why I say "I used pretty dang similar keyboard layouts", note "pretty dang similar" not "entirely, exactly, 100% as you suggested". Ergonomics are often subjective and individual (not everyone's hands are the same!), but you're acting like what you consider ergonomic is just completely factual and unyielding and apply globally. The reasons why I didn't care for the numpad mixed in the keyboard's alpha keys wouldn't change if you shifted the rows around. All I've really been saying is I personally don't care for having numpads mixed in the alpha keys, and you're telling me those keyboards similar to your idea don't exist and berating me for assuming I'm too dumb to know how keyboard remapping works. This is why I say your responses are toxic. I'm really done here though, I don't think you'll ever accept there are keyboards that have uio as numbers or that other people have their own experiences with what is ergonomic.
- eviks 3y ago
  > Not 123, but "they do have the choice to use uio as numbers". So they don't, and all you have to do to understand the context is just not cut out your own words "Not uio as 123," is what I've shortened in my quote to "not uio", so no matter how much you stare at the pictures, you can't remove that. If you followed the conversation honestly, you could even fit 789, but still not 456. You also forgot the other part about input field recognition, so you've twisted both of my original qualifiers to fit your irrelevant experience as an important argument > The keys being shifted one row up from your idea to include the zero and period in the number pad is pretty much an immaterial difference to me here. You can include 0 and period just fine without any shifts. And it is material, just like breaking positioning of signs is. You're not a numpad person, so you don't know/care, but I am and do, so... > This is why I say "I used pretty dang similar keyboard layouts" ...that is why I keep saying that your experience is not related to what I was talking about > Ergonomics are often subjective and individual (not everyone's hands are the same!) But everyone's hands have fingers of different length which don't move in perfect grids. You can't subjectivate your way out of this simple biological fact > The reasons why I didn't care for the numpad mixed in the keyboard's alpha keys wouldn't change if you shifted the rows around. But then the reasons why other people care would change > All I've really been saying That's not what ... oh, wait, your just repeating the same falsehoods that I've already addressed

by eviks 3y ago

vel0city 3y ago

> Not uio You're so toxically wanting to gaslight me you didn't even look at the keyboards in question to see that yes, they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. > I'm a "numpad person" And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123...

eviks 3y ago
> you didn't even look at the I did, both of the links, you're just again "toxically" shifting your ignorance unto me and replacing substantive conversation with personal attacks > they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. No they dont, both pics start with 789 as the top, which is unergonomic (even for "pure" numpad emulation that requires shifting all the /*-+ signs to unfamiliar locations), that's underutilizing your most ergonomic finger/key. And I've specifically mentioned "uio as 123", so you're just openly disingenious now claiming any uio nubers are fine > And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123... That's your fantasy again, of course I knew it's 789 on an unmodded PC numpad, I was typing on a keyboard with a numpad! But I'm also not as limited in my perspecive as to think that whatever exists is the best thing ever and perfectly reflects the inner desires of the people, so I have a different remap, though that's a minor thing you're trying to blow out of proprtion because you can't address the substance of the other claims
- vel0city 3y ago
  > they do have the choice to use uio as numbers > No they dont They do. Not 123, but "they do have the choice to use uio as numbers". I say "they do have the choice to use uio as numbers". You say they don't. I look at the photo, and they have uio as 4, 5 6. I guess those aren't numbers to you, only 1, 2, 3 qualify as numbers. This is why I say your responses are toxic. You're literally telling me here they're not being used as numbers ("no they don't"), when they are being used as numbers, just not the specific numbers you're wanting here. The keys being shifted one row up from your idea to include the zero and period in the number pad is pretty much an immaterial difference to me here. This is why I say "I used pretty dang similar keyboard layouts", note "pretty dang similar" not "entirely, exactly, 100% as you suggested". Ergonomics are often subjective and individual (not everyone's hands are the same!), but you're acting like what you consider ergonomic is just completely factual and unyielding and apply globally. The reasons why I didn't care for the numpad mixed in the keyboard's alpha keys wouldn't change if you shifted the rows around. All I've really been saying is I personally don't care for having numpads mixed in the alpha keys, and you're telling me those keyboards similar to your idea don't exist and berating me for assuming I'm too dumb to know how keyboard remapping works. This is why I say your responses are toxic. I'm really done here though, I don't think you'll ever accept there are keyboards that have uio as numbers or that other people have their own experiences with what is ergonomic.
eviks 3y ago
> Not 123, but "they do have the choice to use uio as numbers". So they don't, and all you have to do to understand the context is just not cut out your own words "Not uio as 123," is what I've shortened in my quote to "not uio", so no matter how much you stare at the pictures, you can't remove that. If you followed the conversation honestly, you could even fit 789, but still not 456. You also forgot the other part about input field recognition, so you've twisted both of my original qualifiers to fit your irrelevant experience as an important argument > The keys being shifted one row up from your idea to include the zero and period in the number pad is pretty much an immaterial difference to me here. You can include 0 and period just fine without any shifts. And it is material, just like breaking positioning of signs is. You're not a numpad person, so you don't know/care, but I am and do, so... > This is why I say "I used pretty dang similar keyboard layouts" ...that is why I keep saying that your experience is not related to what I was talking about > Ergonomics are often subjective and individual (not everyone's hands are the same!) But everyone's hands have fingers of different length which don't move in perfect grids. You can't subjectivate your way out of this simple biological fact > The reasons why I didn't care for the numpad mixed in the keyboard's alpha keys wouldn't change if you shifted the rows around. But then the reasons why other people care would change > All I've really been saying That's not what ... oh, wait, your just repeating the same falsehoods that I've already addressed