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You can keep believing this and being confidently wrong. Seems like my point about plea deals blew past you. Repeat: Innocent people often plead guilty to less

You can keep believing this and being confidently wrong. Seems like my point about plea deals blew past you. Repeat: Innocent people often plead guilty to lesser charges because they fear wrongful convictions for something more serious. The system is set up around this. When wrongfully convicted, it's also very common to get denied parole because you don't admit to doing something wrong. From what I've heard it's very very hard to overturn a wrongful conviction, even in the presence of new evidence or signs of misconduct the system fights it at every turn.

cyberax 3y ago
Sorry, but YOU are wrong. Go on, do the experiment I mentioned. Plea deals don't change anything, the vast majority of takers are guilty. It's just a method of cutting down on the cost of the trial. Wrongful convictions certainly exist, but they are not even close to the main reason for the prison population.
- Faaak 3y ago
  Bystander here, but I think you should open your horizon a bit.. or maybe you're a troll, who knows?
  - cyberax 3y ago
    And have you tried to open _your_ horizon past the usual slogans ("mass imprisonment", "school-to-prison pipeline", etc.)? Try it. It might help you. Or not.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- gambiting 3y ago
  >>Plea deals don't change anything, the vast majority of takers are guilty. So all these stories where someone is put in jail, spends months waiting for trial, then the DA comes around and says "look you can go to trial and maybe get few years in prison, or you can plead guilty and we'll count your time in jail as time served so you can go home tomorrow" 1) Do you think these stories are wrong? Or rare? 2) If you were in that situation as an innocent person, can you not imagine yourself being tempted to accept just to go home to your family? Edit: just to be clear - I don't think anyone is disputing the "majority" part. But I definitely don't think it's so insignificant to be completely ignored either.
  - cyberax 3y ago
    > So all these stories where someone is put in jail, spends months waiting for trial At least in West Coast states, you are almost guaranteed to get a low bail or no bail at all. You'll likely be denied bail only if you are accused of something heinous, so your sentence will be longer than the time in pre-trial. Or if you have a history of skipping bail. So your scenario is highly unlikely, at least on the West Coast. > 1) Do you think these stories are wrong? Or rare? They certainly can happen and do happen, but they are rare. I dislike plea deals in general, and they certainly need to be reformed. My personal philosophy is that laws must be written in such a way, that they don't require any prosecutorial discretion or plea deals. > Edit: just to be clear - I don't think anyone is disputing the "majority" part. But I definitely don't think it's so insignificant to be completely ignored either. If you are interested in criminal justice in the US, you should start communicating with prisoners. Your state department of justice will have a program that allows you to exchange letters with prisoners. Do it, it helps people to stay connected with the outside world. I did that. I now think that prisoners definitely belong in jail, and that trying to reduce the jail population by just ignoring crimes is folly. However, we absolutely must _improve_ the jail conditions. A LOT. And very few organizations are lobbying in this direction. Instead, we have people who want to "fix the root causes of crime" or "abolish incarceration". This is destructive, and it's not helping.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      >>At least in West Coast states, The stories I've read were mostly in New York where this kind of thing happens not infrequently, so I guess - I have no data to prove otherwise. >>My personal philosophy is that laws must be written in such a way, that they don't require any prosecutorial discretion or plea deals. Well, we 100% agree then. >> Instead, we have people who want to "fix the root causes of crime" or "abolish incarceration". This is destructive, and it's not helping. I also agree.
      - cyberax 3y ago
        > The stories I've read were mostly in New York where this kind of thing happens not infrequently, so I guess - I have no data to prove otherwise. I'm not too familiar with NY data sources, but it looks like they have reformed bail recently: https://www.fwd.us/news/new-york-bail-reform-success-story/ https://www.fwd.us/news/new-york-bail-reform-success-story/ But even before that, they had a below-average ratio of pretrial/post-sentencing detention.

cyberax 3y ago

Sorry, but YOU are wrong. Go on, do the experiment I mentioned. Plea deals don't change anything, the vast majority of takers are guilty. It's just a method of cutting down on the cost of the trial. Wrongful convictions certainly exist, but they are not even close to the main reason for the prison population.

Faaak 3y ago
Bystander here, but I think you should open your horizon a bit.. or maybe you're a troll, who knows?
- cyberax 3y ago
  And have you tried to open _your_ horizon past the usual slogans ("mass imprisonment", "school-to-prison pipeline", etc.)? Try it. It might help you. Or not.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
gambiting 3y ago
>>Plea deals don't change anything, the vast majority of takers are guilty. So all these stories where someone is put in jail, spends months waiting for trial, then the DA comes around and says "look you can go to trial and maybe get few years in prison, or you can plead guilty and we'll count your time in jail as time served so you can go home tomorrow" 1) Do you think these stories are wrong? Or rare? 2) If you were in that situation as an innocent person, can you not imagine yourself being tempted to accept just to go home to your family? Edit: just to be clear - I don't think anyone is disputing the "majority" part. But I definitely don't think it's so insignificant to be completely ignored either.
- cyberax 3y ago
  > So all these stories where someone is put in jail, spends months waiting for trial At least in West Coast states, you are almost guaranteed to get a low bail or no bail at all. You'll likely be denied bail only if you are accused of something heinous, so your sentence will be longer than the time in pre-trial. Or if you have a history of skipping bail. So your scenario is highly unlikely, at least on the West Coast. > 1) Do you think these stories are wrong? Or rare? They certainly can happen and do happen, but they are rare. I dislike plea deals in general, and they certainly need to be reformed. My personal philosophy is that laws must be written in such a way, that they don't require any prosecutorial discretion or plea deals. > Edit: just to be clear - I don't think anyone is disputing the "majority" part. But I definitely don't think it's so insignificant to be completely ignored either. If you are interested in criminal justice in the US, you should start communicating with prisoners. Your state department of justice will have a program that allows you to exchange letters with prisoners. Do it, it helps people to stay connected with the outside world. I did that. I now think that prisoners definitely belong in jail, and that trying to reduce the jail population by just ignoring crimes is folly. However, we absolutely must _improve_ the jail conditions. A LOT. And very few organizations are lobbying in this direction. Instead, we have people who want to "fix the root causes of crime" or "abolish incarceration". This is destructive, and it's not helping.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    >>At least in West Coast states, The stories I've read were mostly in New York where this kind of thing happens not infrequently, so I guess - I have no data to prove otherwise. >>My personal philosophy is that laws must be written in such a way, that they don't require any prosecutorial discretion or plea deals. Well, we 100% agree then. >> Instead, we have people who want to "fix the root causes of crime" or "abolish incarceration". This is destructive, and it's not helping. I also agree.
    - cyberax 3y ago
      > The stories I've read were mostly in New York where this kind of thing happens not infrequently, so I guess - I have no data to prove otherwise. I'm not too familiar with NY data sources, but it looks like they have reformed bail recently: https://www.fwd.us/news/new-york-bail-reform-success-story/ https://www.fwd.us/news/new-york-bail-reform-success-story/ But even before that, they had a below-average ratio of pretrial/post-sentencing detention.