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Lions OS: secure – fast – adaptable
- jmakov 3y agoWhere's the talk. On their web site there are only slides.
- microkerneldude 3y agothe talk link will appear as soon as Everything Open uploads it
- 1oooqooq 3y agohope this message gets reminded in 10yrs as the email Linus announcing his toy kernel.
- tommiegannert 3y agoSeems to be this: https://www.lionsos.org/ https://www.lionsos.org/ https://github.com/au-ts/lionsos https://github.com/au-ts/lionsos > LionsOS is aimed at embedded, IoT and cyberphysical systems and is designed to be formally verifiable, adaptable to a wide class of use cases in the target domain, while at the same time setting the benchmark for performance of microkernel-based operating systems. We aim to achieve all three goals by a highly modular yet ruthlessly performance-oriented design and strict adherence to the time-honoured KISS principle.
- alex_suzuki 3y agoWhat, pray tell, are “cyberphysical” systems?
- subjectsigma 3y agohttps://www.google.com/search?q=cyber+physical+systems https://www.google.com/search?q=cyber+physical+systems Factory equipment, vehicles, drones, power grids, medical robots, HVAC, … the list goes on.
- 0xEF 3y agoI work in the industry that builds and integrates most of that stuff. We don't use that term. It's marketing woo which is why the other commenter has probably never heard it.
- Luc 3y ago> It's marketing woo Nah, it's a term used in academia.
- subjectsigma 3y agoI work in defense and it is extremely common. That doesn’t mean it isn’t marketing fluff, but I was genuinely surprised they didn’t know and/or thought they were being snarky.
- foundry27 3y agoAlso involved with some of these industries, no academia/government though, so my perspective may be incomplete. Anecdotally I can’t remember hearing this term used. After reading the Wikipedia page and a couple corporate pages about cyberphysical, I think it looks like it’s more about rebranding existing systems that contain interacting heterogenous elements with different RT needs, rather than introducing fundamentally new systems methodologies or technologies. It kinda reminds me of Agile, where a shift in mindset and terminology was hyped way more than any legitimate improvement in the underlying systems being built, and engineering “Agile products” became so important for some businesses.
- saithound 3y agoIt is a term coined by the Air Force Research Laboratory, as an umbrella term for industrial control systems, robotics, avionics, and generally any system that primarily consists of software and the heavy machinery it operates. The term is favored by DARPA over any of its alternatives; seL4 received DARPA funding, and was adopted by DARPA projects, so it's not surprising that they'd use the associated term. It's no worse than other terms in the embedded systems world, and communicates the intended use cases to the most likely users. Basically, if TrendMicro builds you a bunch of infrastructure to optimize the power grid, it will be described as consisting of Intelligent Electronic Devices. If Collins Aerospace builds the exact same infrastructure, it will be described as consisting of Cyber Physical Systems.
- knighthack 3y agoQuestion: under what circumstances would I ever want to use this OS, over Linux or MacOS or Windows?
- mikewarot 3y agoI've been waiting for a system like this for over a decade to use as my daily driver. An OS that runs with a capability model like this is immune to whole classes of security exploits that guarantee Linux, Windows, MacOS, etc. will never be secure. I was hoping Genode would get there sooner, and GNU Hurd should have gotten there years ago. Capabilities are the computing version of circuit breakers. They make it possible to run code without having to trust it. You can't do that with Linux, Windows, MacOS, et al. MULTICS could do it, but it was deemed too complex, at the time.
- progbits 3y agoDo you know if there is anything like that which can run OCI containers/lightweight VMs? I would love that as daily driver too for the same reasons, but realistically will have to run various Linux apps to be productive, so those could go into shortlived isolated sandboxes ala distrobox.
- dmm 3y agoHave tried Qubes? It provides security through isolated VMs. https://qubes-os.org https://qubes-os.org
- snvzz 3y agoFor some definition of isolated. A replacement with a more serious architecture based on seL4 is in the works[0]. 0. https://trustworthy.systems/projects/makatea/ https://trustworthy.systems/projects/makatea/
- amluto 3y agoFWIW, I would not trust seL4 on x86. Last time I checked, seL4’s interaction with the x86 architecture was not formally verified and looked quite buggy. Even a microkernel has three things that form part of the TCB: the part that interfaces with the even-lower-level stuff (interrupt and exception handlers, paging, memory model, etc), the interface it provides to its clients (syscalls and whatever it provides via syscalls), and the code that glues the first two parts together and implements the microkernel’s internal logic. The latter two, in seL4, are straightforward and formally verified. The former, on x86, not so much. AIUI, the situation on ARM is likely better.
- superidiot1932 3y agoSorry for hijacking this thread but I've tried multiple times to post the announcement of Lions OS weeks ago and it always got shadow deleted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39920624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39920624 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39933112 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39933112
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Solvency 3y agothis site is run and shadow manipulated by mods to bestow karma/credit points to a chosen few posters. you're not in the club.
- jermaustin1 3y agoI'm a nobody in every sense of the word. I didn't go to a fancy school; I didn't join a startup or a unicorn; I've worked as a corporate web dev for 20 years using ASP.Net and C#; I know very few people in tech (and no one high up). My posts are never "shadow deleted" they in fact sometimes get a boost from the mods when they though it just missed the mark timing-wise (i.e. interesting post, but some breaking news thing happened, and I didn't get the love). The moderators only car about keeping the discord civil (as civil as possible), and the posts relevant/interesting for their niche. There probably is a "club" - but not being in it doesn't get your content shadow deleted. It just wasn't interesting enough at the time to get votes.
- Solvency 3y agoI am not the original poster, so what's your explanation for why his two attempts were both deleted?
- santoshalper 3y agoWho knows - maybe different mods have different criteria/bias? Maybe today is a slow day? I mean, this post isn't really big news, it feels like it's just barely scraping by the notability/interest level required to make it on HN. Mostly, I just think the presence of some kind of cabal or conspiracy is a lot less likely than "mods are human and thus subjective and inconsistent".
- pgraf 3y agoCan anyone elaborate which (proposed) advantages LionsOS has over Genode?
- vilvo 3y agoCorrectness via formal verification - at least in the core of sel4.
- monocasa 3y agoGenode can also run on sel4.
- nickpsecurity 3y agoAre its TCB and integration similarly verified? If not formally-verified, are they in a safe language or statically analyzed to block common errors?
- monocasa 3y agoI mean, LionOS appears to (with the exception of sel4 itself) be mainly written in unverified C without heavy static analysis. So LionOS and Genode appear to be about equal in that regard.
- onjectic 3y agoJust as new to LionsOS as you are, but it has a much more permissive license, and it’s not dual licensed. I think this will make it easier for people to support the project.
- mtmk 3y agoWhen I saw 'Sydney 2052' for a split second I felt like I was in a sci-fi movie :D
- defrost 3y agoTangentially related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Commentary_on_the_UNIX_Operating_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Commentary_on_the_UNIX_Opera... The LionsOS name is a direct callback to the John Lions Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition, an Australian computer scientist and somewhat nomadic Professor. Trustworthy, as seen in the post link, also hails from New South Wales.
- pjmlp 3y agoOne of the reasons UNIX won over the other proprietary systems, without the book and the related AT&T drama, most universities wouldn't have bothered.