4 ms·

The idea is to stand up for the weaker party and that's it. It doesn't matter that Palestine is led by a terrorist group with a genocidal agenda with overwhelmi

by slily 2y ago

The idea is to stand up for the weaker party and that's it. It doesn't matter that Palestine is led by a terrorist group with a genocidal agenda with overwhelming popular support. They are weaker and therefore they can't be wrong, by virtue of being weaker they are automatically classified as oppressed and deserving of pity, whilst Israel being the stronger party makes it automatically the bad oppressive party in cartoon style. See also how no one doubts the obviously cooked numbers on Palestinian deaths. You can see this rationale mirrored exactly in the disproportionate criticism of Western states and specifically white settlers.

petee 2y ago
Many could say the same of Israel. But don't conflate protests against Israel as being in support of Hamas. Many people support neither, but are horrified how kids are bearing the brunt. Hamas commited attrocities, so has Israel; all lose in war.
- slily 2y ago
  I agree in principle, but I don't see many protesters demonstrate that nuance.
  - petee 2y ago
    Personally I've never seen a "pro-Hamas" sign, I have no doubt someone somewhere has one. Ive seen plenty of "Free Palastine" signs be called anti-semitic though, despite showing support for the people versus a government.
    - pyeri 2y ago
      That "River to Sea" phrase has a very sinister and evil meaning when you look up the original Arabic. Translations are always polished for mass appeal!
    - slily 2y ago
      I see Jews being harassed, synagogues vandalized, 4chan-tier anti-semitic conspiracy theories going around leftist circles, and more broadly I see social media armchair activists who may or may not be relevant but do affect public opinion parroting Hamas propaganda wholesale, and the protesters featured in this post's article exemplify exactly that mentality which is what I was initially describing. Most people are reasonable, but I'm not concerned with people who know the difference between a hot war and a genocide.
      - jeromegv 2y ago
        When I see aid trucks being attacked by the army but also by protestors while the UN declares millions of people at risk of starvation, I know we are past a “hot war”.
        slily 2y ago
        As far as I know, friendly fire and collateral damage are a reality in all hot wars, especially in situations such as this one where one side attempts to blend in with civilians, so I don't see how this is different. The good and bad of the Internet is that in the sea of information you can pick and choose your truth. Was Israel's killing of aid workers intentional or was it collateral damage? All I know is that Hamas was shown cooking up numbers and lying systematically and that's the side everyone believes for some reason. When their lies are exposed they are simply replaced with more or with some disproportionate criticism of errors committed by the IDF.
        catlover76 2y ago
        [dead]
      - richrichie 2y ago
        FYI 4chan is extremely islamophobic too. They don’t discriminate much.
        slily 2y ago
    - ergocoder 2y ago
      > I have no doubt someone somewhere has one. I've seen two. The protesters at UW organized a protest for palestine on Oct 12th with the Hamas glider in its poster. Many people joined the protest. 5 days after the massacre! You can see the poster here: https://komonews.com/news/local/israel-hamas-war-palestine-gaza-rally-uw-university-washington-seattle-red-square-middle-east-attack-flyer-paraglider-militants-death-toll-protest-campus-students-hayim-katsman-president-administration https://komonews.com/news/local/israel-hamas-war-palestine-g... The pro-palestine protest in San Francisco was chanting "From the river to the sea"
      - raxxorraxor 2y ago
        In my opinion, protesting just after the events in October is a message itself too. My understanding for their griefs is very, very limited here. That of course is not applicable to these sit-ins, although I wouldn't want to support them either.
      - theoldlove 2y ago
        I don’t see any signs in those photos that are explicitly pro Hamas. Which sign are you referring to?
        ergocoder 2y ago
        Here https://komonews.com/resources/media/b8ce76d2-e339-40e2-b077-4f8969bf26d7-medium16x9_palstine.jpg https://komonews.com/resources/media/b8ce76d2-e339-40e2-b077...
  - matsemann 2y ago
    Then you're blind. I've not seen a single person at these protests where I live supporting Hamas. The protests are all about stopping the murdering of innocent civilians. If you take that as a statement for Hamas, you're the one conflating these two things and the problem is entirely in your head.
octopoc 2y ago
[flagged]
- robertoandred 2y ago
  If you think Palestinians have no choice but to rape, kidnap, torture, and murder people, you’re the one not seeing them as human.
  - defrost 2y ago
    It appears both yourself and octopoc are categorising all Palestinians as partaking in terrorism, in rape, kidnap, and torture. That's as much in error as categorising all Jews as supporting the actions of the recent Israel authorities.
yolovoe 2y ago
I highly recommend you read the book The Lemon Tree. I used to think the same as you. Obviously, Palestinians are wrong, right? They rape and murder Israelis? Well, look < 100 years back, and "Israelis" did the same to Palestinians when they forced out Palestinians from their homes to make present-day Israel. Obviously, there was a lot going on in Europe at the time, so it's a bit hard to blame the "Israelis" from 1940s completely too. Understanding how we got here tho is very important. It helps humanize Palestinians, understand why they're mad, and what we can do to peacefully move forward. I believe there is a peaceful solution to the almost 100 year long Israel/Palestine conflict, however unlikely it is to come to fruition.
- raxxorraxor 2y ago
  Are you of the opinion that the attack on Israel was justified? Btw. there is also a history before Israel even existed that would also be relevant here.
  - yolovoe 2y ago
    Of course not. I am just saying we should understand why the attacks happened, and why many more like them will continue to happen for the next couple generations.

by slily 2y ago

petee 2y ago

Many could say the same of Israel. But don't conflate protests against Israel as being in support of Hamas. Many people support neither, but are horrified how kids are bearing the brunt. Hamas commited attrocities, so has Israel; all lose in war.

slily 2y ago
I agree in principle, but I don't see many protesters demonstrate that nuance.
- petee 2y ago
  Personally I've never seen a "pro-Hamas" sign, I have no doubt someone somewhere has one. Ive seen plenty of "Free Palastine" signs be called anti-semitic though, despite showing support for the people versus a government.
  - pyeri 2y ago
    That "River to Sea" phrase has a very sinister and evil meaning when you look up the original Arabic. Translations are always polished for mass appeal!
  - slily 2y ago
    I see Jews being harassed, synagogues vandalized, 4chan-tier anti-semitic conspiracy theories going around leftist circles, and more broadly I see social media armchair activists who may or may not be relevant but do affect public opinion parroting Hamas propaganda wholesale, and the protesters featured in this post's article exemplify exactly that mentality which is what I was initially describing. Most people are reasonable, but I'm not concerned with people who know the difference between a hot war and a genocide.
    - jeromegv 2y ago
      When I see aid trucks being attacked by the army but also by protestors while the UN declares millions of people at risk of starvation, I know we are past a “hot war”.
      - slily 2y ago
        As far as I know, friendly fire and collateral damage are a reality in all hot wars, especially in situations such as this one where one side attempts to blend in with civilians, so I don't see how this is different. The good and bad of the Internet is that in the sea of information you can pick and choose your truth. Was Israel's killing of aid workers intentional or was it collateral damage? All I know is that Hamas was shown cooking up numbers and lying systematically and that's the side everyone believes for some reason. When their lies are exposed they are simply replaced with more or with some disproportionate criticism of errors committed by the IDF.
        catlover76 2y ago
        [dead]
    - richrichie 2y ago
      FYI 4chan is extremely islamophobic too. They don’t discriminate much.
      - slily 2y ago
  - ergocoder 2y ago
    > I have no doubt someone somewhere has one. I've seen two. The protesters at UW organized a protest for palestine on Oct 12th with the Hamas glider in its poster. Many people joined the protest. 5 days after the massacre! You can see the poster here: https://komonews.com/news/local/israel-hamas-war-palestine-gaza-rally-uw-university-washington-seattle-red-square-middle-east-attack-flyer-paraglider-militants-death-toll-protest-campus-students-hayim-katsman-president-administration https://komonews.com/news/local/israel-hamas-war-palestine-g... The pro-palestine protest in San Francisco was chanting "From the river to the sea"
    - raxxorraxor 2y ago
      In my opinion, protesting just after the events in October is a message itself too. My understanding for their griefs is very, very limited here. That of course is not applicable to these sit-ins, although I wouldn't want to support them either.
    - theoldlove 2y ago
      I don’t see any signs in those photos that are explicitly pro Hamas. Which sign are you referring to?
      - ergocoder 2y ago
        Here https://komonews.com/resources/media/b8ce76d2-e339-40e2-b077-4f8969bf26d7-medium16x9_palstine.jpg https://komonews.com/resources/media/b8ce76d2-e339-40e2-b077...
- matsemann 2y ago
  Then you're blind. I've not seen a single person at these protests where I live supporting Hamas. The protests are all about stopping the murdering of innocent civilians. If you take that as a statement for Hamas, you're the one conflating these two things and the problem is entirely in your head.

octopoc 2y ago

[flagged]

robertoandred 2y ago
If you think Palestinians have no choice but to rape, kidnap, torture, and murder people, you’re the one not seeing them as human.
- defrost 2y ago
  It appears both yourself and octopoc are categorising all Palestinians as partaking in terrorism, in rape, kidnap, and torture. That's as much in error as categorising all Jews as supporting the actions of the recent Israel authorities.

yolovoe 2y ago

I highly recommend you read the book The Lemon Tree. I used to think the same as you. Obviously, Palestinians are wrong, right? They rape and murder Israelis? Well, look < 100 years back, and "Israelis" did the same to Palestinians when they forced out Palestinians from their homes to make present-day Israel. Obviously, there was a lot going on in Europe at the time, so it's a bit hard to blame the "Israelis" from 1940s completely too. Understanding how we got here tho is very important. It helps humanize Palestinians, understand why they're mad, and what we can do to peacefully move forward. I believe there is a peaceful solution to the almost 100 year long Israel/Palestine conflict, however unlikely it is to come to fruition.

raxxorraxor 2y ago
Are you of the opinion that the attack on Israel was justified? Btw. there is also a history before Israel even existed that would also be relevant here.
- yolovoe 2y ago
  Of course not. I am just saying we should understand why the attacks happened, and why many more like them will continue to happen for the next couple generations.