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This line of thinking is entirely incompatible with the presumption of innocence and the right to protection from self incrimination.

lazide 3y ago
Welcome to bail/pretrial detention hearings. Practically, what are the alternatives? Every arrest is cite and release pending conviction? Society would be even more out of control.
- maxbond 3y ago
  The alternative is to charge them as a juvenile, and to refrain from inferring a guilty conscious from their lack of "contrition" (which is a patently ridiculous thing to expect from an 11 year old - which is the real issue with charging children as adults, not that they supposedly are more reformable, but that they cannot be held to the same standards as adults). You're engaging in a slippery slope fallacy. This was a miscarriage of justice. Civilization would not have crumbled if this child wasn't put through the wringer.
  - lazide 3y ago
    No, I’m not arguing if it is right or wrong. I’ve been explaining why the levers exist as that was what was being asked. And to be clear, the case I’m referring to the kid was tried and convicted (originally) of 1st degree murder with a shotgun. In juvenile court. And if it turned out the kid did murder them, then people would be up in arms that he got released early - especially if he committed another murder before he got locked up again. Which could happen. Cases like this too [https://www.klfy.com/local/iberia-parish/trial-for-11-year-old-charged-in-iberia-parish-homicide-pushed-back-another-week/amp/ https://www.klfy.com/local/iberia-parish/trial-for-11-year-o...]. Was it a miscarriage of justice? Perhaps, I haven’t seen the evidence. The courts eventually came to the conclusion it was! Until they did, according to the courts it wasn’t. it was also legal while it was happening. And 11yr olds are plenty capable of being defiant, malicious, contrite, etc. too. And active dangers to those around them. I wasn’t there in court when this was going on, so I have no idea if the kid was being out of control, or the judge was being out of control. I’ve seen both play out. The appeals court felt it was the judge. The whole situation is quite terrible regardless. But that’s what the criminal justice system is for - to resolve terrible situations in some eventually sensible way. Woe to whoever gets caught in its gears though.

lazide 3y ago

Welcome to bail/pretrial detention hearings. Practically, what are the alternatives? Every arrest is cite and release pending conviction? Society would be even more out of control.

maxbond 3y ago
The alternative is to charge them as a juvenile, and to refrain from inferring a guilty conscious from their lack of "contrition" (which is a patently ridiculous thing to expect from an 11 year old - which is the real issue with charging children as adults, not that they supposedly are more reformable, but that they cannot be held to the same standards as adults). You're engaging in a slippery slope fallacy. This was a miscarriage of justice. Civilization would not have crumbled if this child wasn't put through the wringer.
- lazide 3y ago
  No, I’m not arguing if it is right or wrong. I’ve been explaining why the levers exist as that was what was being asked. And to be clear, the case I’m referring to the kid was tried and convicted (originally) of 1st degree murder with a shotgun. In juvenile court. And if it turned out the kid did murder them, then people would be up in arms that he got released early - especially if he committed another murder before he got locked up again. Which could happen. Cases like this too [https://www.klfy.com/local/iberia-parish/trial-for-11-year-old-charged-in-iberia-parish-homicide-pushed-back-another-week/amp/ https://www.klfy.com/local/iberia-parish/trial-for-11-year-o...]. Was it a miscarriage of justice? Perhaps, I haven’t seen the evidence. The courts eventually came to the conclusion it was! Until they did, according to the courts it wasn’t. it was also legal while it was happening. And 11yr olds are plenty capable of being defiant, malicious, contrite, etc. too. And active dangers to those around them. I wasn’t there in court when this was going on, so I have no idea if the kid was being out of control, or the judge was being out of control. I’ve seen both play out. The appeals court felt it was the judge. The whole situation is quite terrible regardless. But that’s what the criminal justice system is for - to resolve terrible situations in some eventually sensible way. Woe to whoever gets caught in its gears though.