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OWL and SPARQL inference engines that use RDF and DSMs - there are LISPy variants like datadog still kicking around, but there are some great, high performance

OWL and SPARQL inference engines that use RDF and DSMs - there are LISPy variants like datadog still kicking around, but there are some great, high performance reasoner FOSS projects, like StarDog or Neo4j https://github.com/orgs/stardog-union/ https://github.com/orgs/stardog-union/ Looks like Knowledge Graph and semantic reasoner are the search terms du'jour, I haven't tracked these things since OpenCyc stopped being active. Humans may not be able to effectively trudge through the creation of trillions of little rules and facts needed for an explicit and coherent expert world model, but LLMs definitely can be used for this.

zozbot234 3y ago
You can actually do "inference" or "deduction" over large amounts of data using any old-fashioned RDBMS, and get broadly equal or better performance than the newfangled "graph" based systems. Graph databases may be a clear win for very specialized network analysis, but that is rare in practice.
- p_l 3y ago
  Graph databases win in flexibility and ease of writing the queries over graphs, honestly. Of course the underlying storage can be (and often is) a bunch of specially prepared relational tables. But the strength in graph databases comes from restating the problem in different way, with query languages targeting the specific problem space. Similarly there are tasks where SQL will be plainly better.
  - zozbot234 3y ago
    > ease of writing the queries over graphs, honestly The SQL standard now includes syntactic sugar for 'Property Graph Query'. Implementations are still in the works AIUI, but can be expected in the reasonably near future.
    - p_l 3y ago
      Having seen PGQL, I think I'll stay with SPARQL. And for efficient implementation the database underneath still needs to have extended graph support (in fact, I find it hilarious that Oracle seems to be spearheading it, as they have previously canceled their graph support around 2012 - enough that I wrote about how it was deprecated and removed from support in my thesis in 2014.
  - totetsu 3y ago
    Every time I try to write a query for GitHub’s graphql API I lose a few hours and go back to rest. May be it’s easy if all the edges and inputs are actually implemented in ways you would expect.
    - p_l 3y ago
      GraphQL isn't exactly a proper graph database query language. The name IIRC comes from Facebook Graph API, and the language isn't actually designed as graph database interface.
      - totetsu 3y ago
        Thanks for the correction
riku_iki 3y ago
> high performance reasoner FOSS projects, like StarDog or Neo4j StarDog is not FOSS, that github repo is for various utils around their proprietary package in my understanding, actual engine code is not open source.
justinhj 3y ago
Did you mean Datalog here?

zozbot234 3y ago

You can actually do "inference" or "deduction" over large amounts of data using any old-fashioned RDBMS, and get broadly equal or better performance than the newfangled "graph" based systems. Graph databases may be a clear win for very specialized network analysis, but that is rare in practice.

p_l 3y ago
Graph databases win in flexibility and ease of writing the queries over graphs, honestly. Of course the underlying storage can be (and often is) a bunch of specially prepared relational tables. But the strength in graph databases comes from restating the problem in different way, with query languages targeting the specific problem space. Similarly there are tasks where SQL will be plainly better.
- zozbot234 3y ago
  > ease of writing the queries over graphs, honestly The SQL standard now includes syntactic sugar for 'Property Graph Query'. Implementations are still in the works AIUI, but can be expected in the reasonably near future.
  - p_l 3y ago
    Having seen PGQL, I think I'll stay with SPARQL. And for efficient implementation the database underneath still needs to have extended graph support (in fact, I find it hilarious that Oracle seems to be spearheading it, as they have previously canceled their graph support around 2012 - enough that I wrote about how it was deprecated and removed from support in my thesis in 2014.
- totetsu 3y ago
  Every time I try to write a query for GitHub’s graphql API I lose a few hours and go back to rest. May be it’s easy if all the edges and inputs are actually implemented in ways you would expect.
  - p_l 3y ago
    GraphQL isn't exactly a proper graph database query language. The name IIRC comes from Facebook Graph API, and the language isn't actually designed as graph database interface.
    - totetsu 3y ago
      Thanks for the correction

riku_iki 3y ago

> high performance reasoner FOSS projects, like StarDog or Neo4j StarDog is not FOSS, that github repo is for various utils around their proprietary package in my understanding, actual engine code is not open source.

justinhj 3y ago

Did you mean Datalog here?