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> Should this just be an input on a website or an OS level keyboard remap? Up to you, I didn't bring all this irrelevant personal stuff up. Or instead of doing

by eviks 3y ago

> Should this just be an input on a website or an OS level keyboard remap? Up to you, I didn't bring all this irrelevant personal stuff up. Or instead of doing either you could bring up another one: faux inconsistency > to assume I don't know how to remap keys. No, I assumed you didn't > I know how, I just don't care keeping a keyboard map on me all the time and remapping everyone's keyboard just because I'd like to type numbers not using the number row. This is also hyperbolic nonsense, you don't need to do any of that (why would you ever keep a keyboard map on you at all???), keyboards you use 99% of the time is literally just a few of them, so remapping them is nowhere close to remapping everyone's > So not only is it skewed Which I've already addressed and you still couldn't respond. Your fingers are skewed, so ergonomic numpad wouldn't be linear > you're wanting it flipped from how normal keyboard numberpads are. Or I want it matching how (very frequently used) normal phone numpads are. But that's also an sidetracking nitpick since proper design would match whatever the use wants, so 789 would also fit > FWIW it was a line of Dell Inspiron laptops FWIW this is false, there were/are no such laptops, you're just too tied in trying to twist your personal story into some argument to address what I'm actually saying. Laptop is not aware of your input fields, so they can't dynamically switch to a numpad on the main alpha keys. And yes, they reused 789, so again, no laptop used an ergonomic no-mod numpad input mode. > just saying I used that kind input before and personally didn't care much for it. That's not all you're saying, and more importantly, that's not what I was arguing against since, again, how is your experience relevant this? Yet you keep bringing it up...

vel0city 3y ago
> Your fingers are skewed, so ergonomic numpad wouldn't be linear And yet the numpad people really seem to like is a straight grid. > That's not all you're saying My original comment was literally my personal experiences and the reasons why I had those experiences. > how is your experience relevant this? I used pretty dang similar keyboard layouts on several devices for over 20 years and didn't enjoy it. That's what makes it relevant. It's like you're saying, "chocolate is objectively the best flavor of ice cream" and I'm saying I've had it a bunch over 20 years and still prefer vanilla. And apparently it's not exactly a feature most other people are clamoring for, because while there are some laptops out there with that feature it is pretty much never a notable one. In fact, its such a non-notable feature you're telling me they don't exist. Instead, people who want a number pad choose to buy bigger laptops with a number pad laid out in a straight grid instead of dealing with the number pad mixed in the alpha keys. > FWIW this is false, there were/are no such laptops You're trying to gas light me saying laptops sitting in my closet don't exist and couldn't possibly work. Turns out Dell even has decently modern-ish Latitude laptops with this layout. And looking at my stack of laptops I even have an HP that had that feature as well. You're right they didn't know the input field, but you'd just hold fn with your left finger and suddenly they'd be number pad keys (or toggle fn lock or numlock or whatever for the specific model). https://www.computer-keyboards.com/laptop_keyboard_for_dell_latitude_7390.html https://www.computer-keyboards.com/laptop_keyboard_for_dell_... https://www.cpumedics.com/dell-pk130vn1a00-black-keyboard-us-layout-non-backlit-with-stick-point-for-latitude-e7440/ https://www.cpumedics.com/dell-pk130vn1a00-black-keyboard-us... I'm done here dude. You're being so toxic to someone just sharing a personal experience of using a keyboard like this and finding it not that great, to the point you're trying to gaslight me into believing these laptops don't exist. You're clearly not interested in any bit of a productive conversation. You don't need to get so angry and rude over someone sharing their experience over a keyboard layout feature.
- eviks 3y ago
  > And yet the numpad people really seem to like is a straight grid. I'm a "numpad person", and you aren't one of us, you "eschew numpads", so why do you speak on our behalf? Also, people like a lot of suboptimal things, so what? Like, you really seem to like all these non sequiturs and using personal experiences in place of addresing an argument. What does this prove? > My original comment was literally my personal experiences and the reasons why I had those experiences. And my original replies were literally about everything but. They were about how humeric row was worse due to having to stretch and how regular numpad isn't as perfectly ergonomic etc. > on several devices for over 20 years and didn't enjoy it. That's what makes it relevant. But how does it, specifically? You still haven't answered the original question about how your unwillingness to remap numpads on your friend's keyboard is relevant to a web form where you don't need to remap anything, veering off into some other snark > It's like you're saying, "chocolate is objectively the best flavor of ice cream" and I'm saying I've had it a bunch over 20 years and still prefer vanilla. More like me saying "your fingers have different length, so a design that takes that into account is more ergonomic" and you saying you have 20 years of experience eating chocolate > You're right they didn't know the input field > Not uio So why are you trying to gaslight me into believing they exist when they don't? > and couldn't possibly work. That's again something you've made up, it could work: you track active input field type and switch to a numpad mode if it's numeric. Just like phones already do > You're clearly not interested in any bit of a productive conversation. For that you'd need to start saying something productive instead of measuring anger over the wire
  - vel0city 3y ago
    > Not uio You're so toxically wanting to gaslight me you didn't even look at the keyboards in question to see that yes, they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. > I'm a "numpad person" And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123...
    - eviks 3y ago
      > you didn't even look at the I did, both of the links, you're just again "toxically" shifting your ignorance unto me and replacing substantive conversation with personal attacks > they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. No they dont, both pics start with 789 as the top, which is unergonomic (even for "pure" numpad emulation that requires shifting all the /*-+ signs to unfamiliar locations), that's underutilizing your most ergonomic finger/key. And I've specifically mentioned "uio as 123", so you're just openly disingenious now claiming any uio nubers are fine > And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123... That's your fantasy again, of course I knew it's 789 on an unmodded PC numpad, I was typing on a keyboard with a numpad! But I'm also not as limited in my perspecive as to think that whatever exists is the best thing ever and perfectly reflects the inner desires of the people, so I have a different remap, though that's a minor thing you're trying to blow out of proprtion because you can't address the substance of the other claims

by eviks 3y ago

vel0city 3y ago

> Your fingers are skewed, so ergonomic numpad wouldn't be linear And yet the numpad people really seem to like is a straight grid. > That's not all you're saying My original comment was literally my personal experiences and the reasons why I had those experiences. > how is your experience relevant this? I used pretty dang similar keyboard layouts on several devices for over 20 years and didn't enjoy it. That's what makes it relevant. It's like you're saying, "chocolate is objectively the best flavor of ice cream" and I'm saying I've had it a bunch over 20 years and still prefer vanilla. And apparently it's not exactly a feature most other people are clamoring for, because while there are some laptops out there with that feature it is pretty much never a notable one. In fact, its such a non-notable feature you're telling me they don't exist. Instead, people who want a number pad choose to buy bigger laptops with a number pad laid out in a straight grid instead of dealing with the number pad mixed in the alpha keys. > FWIW this is false, there were/are no such laptops You're trying to gas light me saying laptops sitting in my closet don't exist and couldn't possibly work. Turns out Dell even has decently modern-ish Latitude laptops with this layout. And looking at my stack of laptops I even have an HP that had that feature as well. You're right they didn't know the input field, but you'd just hold fn with your left finger and suddenly they'd be number pad keys (or toggle fn lock or numlock or whatever for the specific model). https://www.computer-keyboards.com/laptop_keyboard_for_dell_latitude_7390.html https://www.computer-keyboards.com/laptop_keyboard_for_dell_... https://www.cpumedics.com/dell-pk130vn1a00-black-keyboard-us-layout-non-backlit-with-stick-point-for-latitude-e7440/ https://www.cpumedics.com/dell-pk130vn1a00-black-keyboard-us... I'm done here dude. You're being so toxic to someone just sharing a personal experience of using a keyboard like this and finding it not that great, to the point you're trying to gaslight me into believing these laptops don't exist. You're clearly not interested in any bit of a productive conversation. You don't need to get so angry and rude over someone sharing their experience over a keyboard layout feature.

eviks 3y ago
> And yet the numpad people really seem to like is a straight grid. I'm a "numpad person", and you aren't one of us, you "eschew numpads", so why do you speak on our behalf? Also, people like a lot of suboptimal things, so what? Like, you really seem to like all these non sequiturs and using personal experiences in place of addresing an argument. What does this prove? > My original comment was literally my personal experiences and the reasons why I had those experiences. And my original replies were literally about everything but. They were about how humeric row was worse due to having to stretch and how regular numpad isn't as perfectly ergonomic etc. > on several devices for over 20 years and didn't enjoy it. That's what makes it relevant. But how does it, specifically? You still haven't answered the original question about how your unwillingness to remap numpads on your friend's keyboard is relevant to a web form where you don't need to remap anything, veering off into some other snark > It's like you're saying, "chocolate is objectively the best flavor of ice cream" and I'm saying I've had it a bunch over 20 years and still prefer vanilla. More like me saying "your fingers have different length, so a design that takes that into account is more ergonomic" and you saying you have 20 years of experience eating chocolate > You're right they didn't know the input field > Not uio So why are you trying to gaslight me into believing they exist when they don't? > and couldn't possibly work. That's again something you've made up, it could work: you track active input field type and switch to a numpad mode if it's numeric. Just like phones already do > You're clearly not interested in any bit of a productive conversation. For that you'd need to start saying something productive instead of measuring anger over the wire
- vel0city 3y ago
  > Not uio You're so toxically wanting to gaslight me you didn't even look at the keyboards in question to see that yes, they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. > I'm a "numpad person" And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123...
  - eviks 3y ago
    > you didn't even look at the I did, both of the links, you're just again "toxically" shifting your ignorance unto me and replacing substantive conversation with personal attacks > they do have the choice to use uio as numbers. No they dont, both pics start with 789 as the top, which is unergonomic (even for "pure" numpad emulation that requires shifting all the /*-+ signs to unfamiliar locations), that's underutilizing your most ergonomic finger/key. And I've specifically mentioned "uio as 123", so you're just openly disingenious now claiming any uio nubers are fine > And yet you thought the top row of a PC numpad was 123... That's your fantasy again, of course I knew it's 789 on an unmodded PC numpad, I was typing on a keyboard with a numpad! But I'm also not as limited in my perspecive as to think that whatever exists is the best thing ever and perfectly reflects the inner desires of the people, so I have a different remap, though that's a minor thing you're trying to blow out of proprtion because you can't address the substance of the other claims