6 ms·

> "Unfortunately, what has happened is that wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, by and large, for the last 50 years or so" Not sure about 50 years,

by verteu 3y ago

> "Unfortunately, what has happened is that wages haven’t kept up with the cost of living, by and large, for the last 50 years or so" Not sure about 50 years, but from 2001-2020 (period where data is most easily available for me) things seem fine? CPI: 175.1->257.971 (2.1%/yr) Median wage: $27060 -> $46310 (2.9%/yr) Mean wage: $34020 -> $61900 (3.2%/yr) Bottom 10% wage: $18140 -> $27340 (2.2%/yr) Rent burden (median_wage / median_rent): 25% -> 28% (and it's now back down to 27%) [1] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?bls https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?bls [2] eg https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=median+US+wage+2022 https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=median+US+wage+2022

riku_iki 3y ago
> median_rent I am wondering if it is low because people simply downsizing..
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- verteu 2y ago
  It barely seems possible (much less likely) for everyone (in aggregate) to downsize. Probably someone is buying or moving into their old (newly-vacant) property?
  - riku_iki 2y ago
    If rent to income increased two times in 25 years, I totally see how significant fraction of population downsized.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - verteu 2y ago
      Why do you think rent to income increased 2x in L25y? The numbers I've seen are a small fraction of that.
      - riku_iki 2y ago
        > Why do you think rent to income increased 2x in L25y? I didn't say I think this happened, I just gave example with "if", in reality change may be not as extreme, but even say 20% change on average meaning that certain slice of population was downsizing because was affected dramatically. I think these stats are not even and can be heavily sliced by region/social slice, e.g. in silicon valley rent definitely raised 2-3 times in last 15 years, but blue color workers didn't receive equal raise in wages.
        verteu 2y ago
        > in silicon valley rent definitely raised 2-3 times in last 15 years, but blue color workers didn't receive equal raise in wages. Source? In the last 15 years, SF median rent went up 78% and SF minimum wage went up 93% [1] [2], so it seems quite likely blue color wages outpaced inflation. I notice a worrying trend where people invent negative economic stats instead of looking at the real numbers [3]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUURA422SEHA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUURA422SEHA [2] https://www.sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/Historical%20San%20Francisco%20Minimum%20Wage%20Rates.pdf https://www.sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/Historical%20... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibecession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibecession
        riku_iki 2y ago
        I know the price of specific apartments. 2br went up from 1600 to 3200-3800(depending on month price varies), and many blue color workers who used to live there moved from that complex. > SF median rent your graph shows not SF (which is actually not silicon valley) but SF-Oakland metropolitan area. SF rent likely raised more than that. > SF minimum wage went up 93% Min wage is an outlier, they couldn't afford rent then and now. Another factor is taxes, while wages increased, wages after taxes increased slower, because pushed income to another bracket.

by verteu 3y ago

riku_iki 3y ago

> median_rent I am wondering if it is low because people simply downsizing..

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
verteu 2y ago
It barely seems possible (much less likely) for everyone (in aggregate) to downsize. Probably someone is buying or moving into their old (newly-vacant) property?
- riku_iki 2y ago
  If rent to income increased two times in 25 years, I totally see how significant fraction of population downsized.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - verteu 2y ago
    Why do you think rent to income increased 2x in L25y? The numbers I've seen are a small fraction of that.
    - riku_iki 2y ago
      > Why do you think rent to income increased 2x in L25y? I didn't say I think this happened, I just gave example with "if", in reality change may be not as extreme, but even say 20% change on average meaning that certain slice of population was downsizing because was affected dramatically. I think these stats are not even and can be heavily sliced by region/social slice, e.g. in silicon valley rent definitely raised 2-3 times in last 15 years, but blue color workers didn't receive equal raise in wages.
      - verteu 2y ago
        > in silicon valley rent definitely raised 2-3 times in last 15 years, but blue color workers didn't receive equal raise in wages. Source? In the last 15 years, SF median rent went up 78% and SF minimum wage went up 93% [1] [2], so it seems quite likely blue color wages outpaced inflation. I notice a worrying trend where people invent negative economic stats instead of looking at the real numbers [3]. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUURA422SEHA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUURA422SEHA [2] https://www.sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/Historical%20San%20Francisco%20Minimum%20Wage%20Rates.pdf https://www.sf.gov/sites/default/files/2023-02/Historical%20... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibecession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibecession
        riku_iki 2y ago
        I know the price of specific apartments. 2br went up from 1600 to 3200-3800(depending on month price varies), and many blue color workers who used to live there moved from that complex. > SF median rent your graph shows not SF (which is actually not silicon valley) but SF-Oakland metropolitan area. SF rent likely raised more than that. > SF minimum wage went up 93% Min wage is an outlier, they couldn't afford rent then and now. Another factor is taxes, while wages increased, wages after taxes increased slower, because pushed income to another bracket.