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Right? This is exactly what I have been worried about and people tried to explain to tell me that, no this doesn't remove choice from me as a user. When in fa

Right? This is exactly what I have been worried about and people tried to explain to tell me that, no this doesn't remove choice from me as a user. When in fact it does, if I was in the EU (and if the US does something similar, likely here) if I wanted to download this I would have to use their store. The choice is being made for me by the developer. It didn't take long to already have an example of this happening and bigger companies will likely follow suit. So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers?

goosedragons 3y ago
Whose fault is it that it has to be a paid app store? Blame Apple for their ridiculous policies that essentially require it.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  I never mentioned anything about the fee, just that you have to use a different store.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden.
    - nerdjon 3y ago
      > A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? > And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden. Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU.
      - goosedragons 3y ago
        It was available on the not PAL AltStore. AltStore was originally created to distribute Delta because Apple wouldn't allow it.
      - littlestymaar 3y ago
        > And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? See the sibling response. > Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU. As of… TODAY! Day of the release of the alternative store. What a marvelous coincidence for an emulator that has been submitted years ago on the App store and blocked by Apple for all this time! Yes, Apple recently changed their policy about emulators … as a result of the exact same Digital Market Act that allowed this alternative store to exist. Again, this isn't a coincidence, it's just how the consequences of the regulation are unfolding and how Apple is trying to cope with it (in a surprisingly clumsy way).
        nerdjon 3y ago
        [flagged]
talldayo 3y ago
Because... the developer didn't swallow Apple's fee for you? Your decision is to pay Apple's fee that they claim is fair, or not use the app. I don't really see how we can shake our fists at the developers and publishers for not sponsoring the distribution of their FOSS app. It's very clearly the Unity-esque installation fee that is the problem here.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Um... no where did I mention anything about the fee... They could have put the app on the app store on the EU and on their store. But did not.
  - talldayo 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - nerdjon 3y ago
      Or, you know the developer could do what they did in other countries and just put it on the EU App store... Clearly it works there, according to the verge it's identical. Could even charge the same $2 a year if they really want too. Again, not complaining about the fee here. You replied to me thinking I was upset about a certain thing, that is not in fact the thing I am upset about and you seem to be doubling down... My core issue here, is being forced to download an alternative store by the developer making a choice. They did not have to make this choice. But they did, and now as the user I have no choice but to follow if I want to download it. This really isn't hard to understand. If it really is about the CTF, just charge the same fee.
      - talldayo 3y ago
        That really sucks. I don't deal with any of that on Android, it must be an iOS-specific policy that results in the vast and feverish desire for developers to leave the App Store. As a user, you must really be going through it. From a developer standpoint (or hell, even a business one), kissing Apple's ring is not infinitely viable. Either Apple drafts more amicable first-party terms for their developers, or the people creating content for their users will make their platform a living hell. You should be mad, there shouldn't be anyone stopping you from installing whatever you want freely in the first place. But here we are, with our App Stores from on-high. I really hope things change for you. I don't hold much faith in Apple's strategy working going forwards.
realusername 3y ago
> So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers? You can blame Apple here, by adding a fee per install, if you choose to go outside the appstore, you pretty much have to remove the free appstore option otherwise why would anybody use the other one? The weird economics Apple has created discourages using both.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here. Give users that choice, that is all I am asking for here. Actually give users a choice instead of removing the choice from them. Which at this point in time, that choice is being removed from the user.
  - realusername 3y ago
    It's not that they are fine with charging, it's that they have no choice, they are charging the bare minimum to cover the new Apple fees. Sure they could create a paid appstore option only in the EU (if that's not against the appstore guidelines somehow, I don't know) but that might not align well with their strategy. Additionally I also feel it would kind of be a bad PR on their side as well to charge more on the appstore in the EU.
  - oarsinsync 3y ago
    > Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here Alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install starting from the very first one. Apps distributed in alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install after the first 1m. The CTF is an annual fee. In this instance, the app store developer is the same as the app developer, so the yearly fee for the store is being used to cover both sets of fees.

goosedragons 3y ago

Whose fault is it that it has to be a paid app store? Blame Apple for their ridiculous policies that essentially require it.

nerdjon 3y ago
I never mentioned anything about the fee, just that you have to use a different store.
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden.
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    > A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? > And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden. Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU.
    - goosedragons 3y ago
      It was available on the not PAL AltStore. AltStore was originally created to distribute Delta because Apple wouldn't allow it.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      > And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? See the sibling response. > Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU. As of… TODAY! Day of the release of the alternative store. What a marvelous coincidence for an emulator that has been submitted years ago on the App store and blocked by Apple for all this time! Yes, Apple recently changed their policy about emulators … as a result of the exact same Digital Market Act that allowed this alternative store to exist. Again, this isn't a coincidence, it's just how the consequences of the regulation are unfolding and how Apple is trying to cope with it (in a surprisingly clumsy way).
      - nerdjon 3y ago
        [flagged]

talldayo 3y ago

Because... the developer didn't swallow Apple's fee for you? Your decision is to pay Apple's fee that they claim is fair, or not use the app. I don't really see how we can shake our fists at the developers and publishers for not sponsoring the distribution of their FOSS app. It's very clearly the Unity-esque installation fee that is the problem here.

nerdjon 3y ago
Um... no where did I mention anything about the fee... They could have put the app on the app store on the EU and on their store. But did not.
- talldayo 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nerdjon 3y ago
    Or, you know the developer could do what they did in other countries and just put it on the EU App store... Clearly it works there, according to the verge it's identical. Could even charge the same $2 a year if they really want too. Again, not complaining about the fee here. You replied to me thinking I was upset about a certain thing, that is not in fact the thing I am upset about and you seem to be doubling down... My core issue here, is being forced to download an alternative store by the developer making a choice. They did not have to make this choice. But they did, and now as the user I have no choice but to follow if I want to download it. This really isn't hard to understand. If it really is about the CTF, just charge the same fee.
    - talldayo 3y ago
      That really sucks. I don't deal with any of that on Android, it must be an iOS-specific policy that results in the vast and feverish desire for developers to leave the App Store. As a user, you must really be going through it. From a developer standpoint (or hell, even a business one), kissing Apple's ring is not infinitely viable. Either Apple drafts more amicable first-party terms for their developers, or the people creating content for their users will make their platform a living hell. You should be mad, there shouldn't be anyone stopping you from installing whatever you want freely in the first place. But here we are, with our App Stores from on-high. I really hope things change for you. I don't hold much faith in Apple's strategy working going forwards.

realusername 3y ago

> So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers? You can blame Apple here, by adding a fee per install, if you choose to go outside the appstore, you pretty much have to remove the free appstore option otherwise why would anybody use the other one? The weird economics Apple has created discourages using both.

nerdjon 3y ago
Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here. Give users that choice, that is all I am asking for here. Actually give users a choice instead of removing the choice from them. Which at this point in time, that choice is being removed from the user.
- realusername 3y ago
  It's not that they are fine with charging, it's that they have no choice, they are charging the bare minimum to cover the new Apple fees. Sure they could create a paid appstore option only in the EU (if that's not against the appstore guidelines somehow, I don't know) but that might not align well with their strategy. Additionally I also feel it would kind of be a bad PR on their side as well to charge more on the appstore in the EU.
- oarsinsync 3y ago
  > Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here Alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install starting from the very first one. Apps distributed in alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install after the first 1m. The CTF is an annual fee. In this instance, the app store developer is the same as the app developer, so the yearly fee for the store is being used to cover both sets of fees.