14 ms·

Delta for free in the regular App Store everywhere but the EU where we have to download a paid app store to install it, so it begins.

by lycos 2y ago

nerdjon 2y ago
Right? This is exactly what I have been worried about and people tried to explain to tell me that, no this doesn't remove choice from me as a user. When in fact it does, if I was in the EU (and if the US does something similar, likely here) if I wanted to download this I would have to use their store. The choice is being made for me by the developer. It didn't take long to already have an example of this happening and bigger companies will likely follow suit. So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers?
- goosedragons 2y ago
  Whose fault is it that it has to be a paid app store? Blame Apple for their ridiculous policies that essentially require it.
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    I never mentioned anything about the fee, just that you have to use a different store.
    - littlestymaar 2y ago
      A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden.
      - nerdjon 2y ago
        > A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? > And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden. Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU.
        goosedragons 2y ago
        It was available on the not PAL AltStore. AltStore was originally created to distribute Delta because Apple wouldn't allow it.
        littlestymaar 2y ago
        > And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? See the sibling response. > Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU. As of… TODAY! Day of the release of the alternative store. What a marvelous coincidence for an emulator that has been submitted years ago on the App store and blocked by Apple for all this time! Yes, Apple recently changed their policy about emulators … as a result of the exact same Digital Market Act that allowed this alternative store to exist. Again, this isn't a coincidence, it's just how the consequences of the regulation are unfolding and how Apple is trying to cope with it (in a surprisingly clumsy way).
        nerdjon 2y ago
        [flagged]
- talldayo 2y ago
  Because... the developer didn't swallow Apple's fee for you? Your decision is to pay Apple's fee that they claim is fair, or not use the app. I don't really see how we can shake our fists at the developers and publishers for not sponsoring the distribution of their FOSS app. It's very clearly the Unity-esque installation fee that is the problem here.
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    Um... no where did I mention anything about the fee... They could have put the app on the app store on the EU and on their store. But did not.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - nerdjon 2y ago
        Or, you know the developer could do what they did in other countries and just put it on the EU App store... Clearly it works there, according to the verge it's identical. Could even charge the same $2 a year if they really want too. Again, not complaining about the fee here. You replied to me thinking I was upset about a certain thing, that is not in fact the thing I am upset about and you seem to be doubling down... My core issue here, is being forced to download an alternative store by the developer making a choice. They did not have to make this choice. But they did, and now as the user I have no choice but to follow if I want to download it. This really isn't hard to understand. If it really is about the CTF, just charge the same fee.
        talldayo 2y ago
        That really sucks. I don't deal with any of that on Android, it must be an iOS-specific policy that results in the vast and feverish desire for developers to leave the App Store. As a user, you must really be going through it. From a developer standpoint (or hell, even a business one), kissing Apple's ring is not infinitely viable. Either Apple drafts more amicable first-party terms for their developers, or the people creating content for their users will make their platform a living hell. You should be mad, there shouldn't be anyone stopping you from installing whatever you want freely in the first place. But here we are, with our App Stores from on-high. I really hope things change for you. I don't hold much faith in Apple's strategy working going forwards.
- realusername 2y ago
  > So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers? You can blame Apple here, by adding a fee per install, if you choose to go outside the appstore, you pretty much have to remove the free appstore option otherwise why would anybody use the other one? The weird economics Apple has created discourages using both.
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here. Give users that choice, that is all I am asking for here. Actually give users a choice instead of removing the choice from them. Which at this point in time, that choice is being removed from the user.
    - realusername 2y ago
      It's not that they are fine with charging, it's that they have no choice, they are charging the bare minimum to cover the new Apple fees. Sure they could create a paid appstore option only in the EU (if that's not against the appstore guidelines somehow, I don't know) but that might not align well with their strategy. Additionally I also feel it would kind of be a bad PR on their side as well to charge more on the appstore in the EU.
    - oarsinsync 2y ago
      > Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here Alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install starting from the very first one. Apps distributed in alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install after the first 1m. The CTF is an annual fee. In this instance, the app store developer is the same as the app developer, so the yearly fee for the store is being used to cover both sets of fees.
tapoxi 2y ago
Don't you find the timing of them suddenly allowing emulators suspicious? If it weren't for that alt app store, would the U.S. app store have emulators at all?
- kernal 2y ago
  Not a chance. This is Apple making their users stick with the App Store as their only store.
  - bogwog 2y ago
    In other words, another example of competitive pressure forcing a company to actually try and win over consumers.
    - parski 2y ago
      This is private enterprise squirming as regulators are prying them open.
littlestymaar 2y ago
Until recently (that is, until today), Delta wasn't even available in the app store to begin with. And most likely it and that would still be without the alternative store, since Apple is only eventually allowing it to make a point.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  > since Apple is only eventually allowing it to make a point. No.. no they are not. They clearly made a policy change and allowed another emulator on the App Store https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/04/apple-removes-the-first-ios-game-boy-emulator-released-under-new-app-store-rules/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/04/apple-removes-the-fir...
  - pfg_ 2y ago
    Why did they do that? Did they just decide to after 6 years randomly with no inciting incident? Or did they decide to because they were being forced to allow alternative app stores which would allow emulator installation anyway?
    - nerdjon 2y ago
      Probably, and I am not arguing that. I think it is important to point out that clearly there could be improvements to the App Store without opening it wide open. However, this has nothing to do with my core problem here of now in the EU having no choice but to use an alternative store. When every other country can just download it from the App Store. My problem here is not that alternative store exist. my problem is that we are already seeing a developer making the choice for me of where I can download the app from. Which is why I replied with an article, if Apple was just focusing on "making a point" the previous emulator would not have been approved.
      - herrkanin 2y ago
        - Alternative app marketplaces become allowed. - Apple sees emulators as a potential market for alternative app stores and proactively chooses to allow them in the Apple App Store. - This is a clear example of how competition in the app market place being a positive thing. - Developer creates an alternative app marketplace, with an emulator as one of its main apps on launch, realizing the competition that forced Apple to update their rules to allow emulators in their own store. I'm sorry you feel forced to download a separate app store, but don't you see how you in the end are benefitting from this change even without using the AltStore? Give it some time and you will probably have another emulator in the app store you can choose to download.
tomduncalf 2y ago
Why is it not available in the EU? Is this just the Delta developer wanting to promote/push people to their App Store, or is there some other reason e.g. Apple don’t allow the app in the EU? I’m a bit confused why it would be on alternative store at all, if Apple now allow these apps… can someone ELI5? (I’m in the UK so can download from the App Store, finally a benefit of you-know-what lol)
- yreg 2y ago
  I think they cannot put it on both stores per Apple rules. And since the Delta developer is the same person as the Alt Store developer he chose to put it on his own store.
  - tomduncalf 2y ago
    I see! I guess I don’t understand why the developer would bother with their own store if the App Store now allows emulators, and the Delta app is free - but I guess this was only a recent change, maybe allowed by Apple purely as a way to try to stop people going to alt stores? I guess maybe the developer feels it’s their duty to follow the alt store thing through to keep pressure on Apple? Or maybe they stand to make money (either now or in future with other apps) from their store?
    - troupo 2y ago
      > why the developer would bother with their own store if the App Store now allows emulators The keyword is now allows emulators. They didn't allow it 3 weeks ago. Or a year ago. Or 10 years ago. Only now, with alternative stores launching and offering this, Apple has finally allowed emulators. Perhaps the developer doesn't want to be beholden to Apple's whims? Especially after investing a lot of effort into setting up an alternative store?
      - nicolas_17 2y ago
        Could you point at what part of the old rules was forbidding emulators?

Delta for free in the regular App Store everywhere but the EU where we have to download a paid app store to install it, so it begins.

by lycos 2y ago

Delta for free in the regular App Store everywhere but the EU where we have to download a paid app store to install it, so it begins.

nerdjon 2y ago

Right? This is exactly what I have been worried about and people tried to explain to tell me that, no this doesn't remove choice from me as a user. When in fact it does, if I was in the EU (and if the US does something similar, likely here) if I wanted to download this I would have to use their store. The choice is being made for me by the developer. It didn't take long to already have an example of this happening and bigger companies will likely follow suit. So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers?

goosedragons 2y ago
Whose fault is it that it has to be a paid app store? Blame Apple for their ridiculous policies that essentially require it.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  I never mentioned anything about the fee, just that you have to use a different store.
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden.
    - nerdjon 2y ago
      > A different store than what, Delta wasn't even available on the app store until earlier today! And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? > And the irony is that they had to develop the entire store just so that they could bypass the walled garden. Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU.
      - goosedragons 2y ago
        It was available on the not PAL AltStore. AltStore was originally created to distribute Delta because Apple wouldn't allow it.
      - littlestymaar 2y ago
        > And unless I am missing something it wasn't available on this alternative store until today. What does that change about the conversation? See the sibling response. > Clearly not since it is available on the Apple App Store in every country other than the EU. As of… TODAY! Day of the release of the alternative store. What a marvelous coincidence for an emulator that has been submitted years ago on the App store and blocked by Apple for all this time! Yes, Apple recently changed their policy about emulators … as a result of the exact same Digital Market Act that allowed this alternative store to exist. Again, this isn't a coincidence, it's just how the consequences of the regulation are unfolding and how Apple is trying to cope with it (in a surprisingly clumsy way).
        nerdjon 2y ago
        [flagged]
talldayo 2y ago
Because... the developer didn't swallow Apple's fee for you? Your decision is to pay Apple's fee that they claim is fair, or not use the app. I don't really see how we can shake our fists at the developers and publishers for not sponsoring the distribution of their FOSS app. It's very clearly the Unity-esque installation fee that is the problem here.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  Um... no where did I mention anything about the fee... They could have put the app on the app store on the EU and on their store. But did not.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - nerdjon 2y ago
      Or, you know the developer could do what they did in other countries and just put it on the EU App store... Clearly it works there, according to the verge it's identical. Could even charge the same $2 a year if they really want too. Again, not complaining about the fee here. You replied to me thinking I was upset about a certain thing, that is not in fact the thing I am upset about and you seem to be doubling down... My core issue here, is being forced to download an alternative store by the developer making a choice. They did not have to make this choice. But they did, and now as the user I have no choice but to follow if I want to download it. This really isn't hard to understand. If it really is about the CTF, just charge the same fee.
      - talldayo 2y ago
        That really sucks. I don't deal with any of that on Android, it must be an iOS-specific policy that results in the vast and feverish desire for developers to leave the App Store. As a user, you must really be going through it. From a developer standpoint (or hell, even a business one), kissing Apple's ring is not infinitely viable. Either Apple drafts more amicable first-party terms for their developers, or the people creating content for their users will make their platform a living hell. You should be mad, there shouldn't be anyone stopping you from installing whatever you want freely in the first place. But here we are, with our App Stores from on-high. I really hope things change for you. I don't hold much faith in Apple's strategy working going forwards.
realusername 2y ago
> So how exactly does this benefit users again and isn't all about appeasing developers? You can blame Apple here, by adding a fee per install, if you choose to go outside the appstore, you pretty much have to remove the free appstore option otherwise why would anybody use the other one? The weird economics Apple has created discourages using both.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here. Give users that choice, that is all I am asking for here. Actually give users a choice instead of removing the choice from them. Which at this point in time, that choice is being removed from the user.
  - realusername 2y ago
    It's not that they are fine with charging, it's that they have no choice, they are charging the bare minimum to cover the new Apple fees. Sure they could create a paid appstore option only in the EU (if that's not against the appstore guidelines somehow, I don't know) but that might not align well with their strategy. Additionally I also feel it would kind of be a bad PR on their side as well to charge more on the appstore in the EU.
  - oarsinsync 2y ago
    > Clearly though they are fine with charging a yearly fee to access the store. So why not just charge for the app in the EU IF that really is the problem here Alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install starting from the very first one. Apps distributed in alternative app stores have to pay the CTF for every install after the first 1m. The CTF is an annual fee. In this instance, the app store developer is the same as the app developer, so the yearly fee for the store is being used to cover both sets of fees.

tapoxi 2y ago

Don't you find the timing of them suddenly allowing emulators suspicious? If it weren't for that alt app store, would the U.S. app store have emulators at all?

kernal 2y ago
Not a chance. This is Apple making their users stick with the App Store as their only store.
- bogwog 2y ago
  In other words, another example of competitive pressure forcing a company to actually try and win over consumers.
  - parski 2y ago
    This is private enterprise squirming as regulators are prying them open.

littlestymaar 2y ago

Until recently (that is, until today), Delta wasn't even available in the app store to begin with. And most likely it and that would still be without the alternative store, since Apple is only eventually allowing it to make a point.

nerdjon 2y ago
> since Apple is only eventually allowing it to make a point. No.. no they are not. They clearly made a policy change and allowed another emulator on the App Store https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/04/apple-removes-the-first-ios-game-boy-emulator-released-under-new-app-store-rules/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/04/apple-removes-the-fir...
- pfg_ 2y ago
  Why did they do that? Did they just decide to after 6 years randomly with no inciting incident? Or did they decide to because they were being forced to allow alternative app stores which would allow emulator installation anyway?
  - nerdjon 2y ago
    Probably, and I am not arguing that. I think it is important to point out that clearly there could be improvements to the App Store without opening it wide open. However, this has nothing to do with my core problem here of now in the EU having no choice but to use an alternative store. When every other country can just download it from the App Store. My problem here is not that alternative store exist. my problem is that we are already seeing a developer making the choice for me of where I can download the app from. Which is why I replied with an article, if Apple was just focusing on "making a point" the previous emulator would not have been approved.
    - herrkanin 2y ago
      - Alternative app marketplaces become allowed. - Apple sees emulators as a potential market for alternative app stores and proactively chooses to allow them in the Apple App Store. - This is a clear example of how competition in the app market place being a positive thing. - Developer creates an alternative app marketplace, with an emulator as one of its main apps on launch, realizing the competition that forced Apple to update their rules to allow emulators in their own store. I'm sorry you feel forced to download a separate app store, but don't you see how you in the end are benefitting from this change even without using the AltStore? Give it some time and you will probably have another emulator in the app store you can choose to download.

tomduncalf 2y ago

Why is it not available in the EU? Is this just the Delta developer wanting to promote/push people to their App Store, or is there some other reason e.g. Apple don’t allow the app in the EU? I’m a bit confused why it would be on alternative store at all, if Apple now allow these apps… can someone ELI5? (I’m in the UK so can download from the App Store, finally a benefit of you-know-what lol)

yreg 2y ago
I think they cannot put it on both stores per Apple rules. And since the Delta developer is the same person as the Alt Store developer he chose to put it on his own store.
- tomduncalf 2y ago
  I see! I guess I don’t understand why the developer would bother with their own store if the App Store now allows emulators, and the Delta app is free - but I guess this was only a recent change, maybe allowed by Apple purely as a way to try to stop people going to alt stores? I guess maybe the developer feels it’s their duty to follow the alt store thing through to keep pressure on Apple? Or maybe they stand to make money (either now or in future with other apps) from their store?
  - troupo 2y ago
    > why the developer would bother with their own store if the App Store now allows emulators The keyword is now allows emulators. They didn't allow it 3 weeks ago. Or a year ago. Or 10 years ago. Only now, with alternative stores launching and offering this, Apple has finally allowed emulators. Perhaps the developer doesn't want to be beholden to Apple's whims? Especially after investing a lot of effort into setting up an alternative store?
    - nicolas_17 2y ago
      Could you point at what part of the old rules was forbidding emulators?