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Why "good luck?" I'm an avid biker (the manually powered type, mostly, but sometimes also snowmobiles), and most 1-20 (I guess?) degree turns that I make do not

Why "good luck?" I'm an avid biker (the manually powered type, mostly, but sometimes also snowmobiles), and most 1-20 (I guess?) degree turns that I make do not involve turning my front wheel at all (in the sense that: I don't move my hands consciously). Now, for wider turns, you do need to turn your front, but even then, it's usually in the opposite direction! Anyway, on snow mobiles, you really don't want to need your steering handles, as they don't control a wheel, but skis! And staying on the trail mostly involves reducing speed and, well, leaning. By the time you really need your steering handles, or your brakes, you're really already in trouble...

Arelius 2y ago
> turns that I make do not involve turning my front wheel at all (in the sense that: I don't move my hands consciously). In all likelihood you are doing it unconsciously, generally, as one goes to initiate, say a right-hand turn, as you begin to lean right, you also apply a slight additional pressure to the right handle bar, which steers the wheel to the left, this initiates counter-steer which leans the bike to the right. With a stable bike, and a fixed front fork, it would be exceedingly difficult to initiate a lean significant enough to navigate most roads at the speed that we do.
- PreInternet01 2y ago
  Nah. I have a cargo bike with a front carrier platform that allows/requires me to lock my front wheel when parking/loading. If I forget to unlock my front wheel, I can go about my ways just fine: it's just unpleasant. I also ride snowmobiles on a regular basis, and if you require any effort at steering (like at braking!), that's pretty much an error: you shouldn't need to do it! And that's even at 60km/h...
  - Arelius 2y ago
    I responded to your other post, but I think the confusion is mostly about considering different forms of bikes, and their respective weights compared to the rider. Also, I'll be honest I haven't ridden a snowmobile in so long that I don't really have a mental model of it. I'm interested though, Do you think they are a similar experience? Don't they normally have like many more points of contact?
    - PreInternet01 2y ago
      The 'point of contact' on a snowmobile is mostly the track, which is like, 40x350cm (15x150"), or whatever, plus some small front skis, but, really these don't do very much. Still, the experience is exactly the same as a 'manual' bike (here's mine: https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl). Point is: you need to really steer beyond leaning? You either hit a over-40-degree turn (not uncommon even in Amsterdam!) or you did something wrong. You need to brake? Either an idiot crossed your path, or you definitely did something wrong!

Arelius 2y ago

> turns that I make do not involve turning my front wheel at all (in the sense that: I don't move my hands consciously). In all likelihood you are doing it unconsciously, generally, as one goes to initiate, say a right-hand turn, as you begin to lean right, you also apply a slight additional pressure to the right handle bar, which steers the wheel to the left, this initiates counter-steer which leans the bike to the right. With a stable bike, and a fixed front fork, it would be exceedingly difficult to initiate a lean significant enough to navigate most roads at the speed that we do.

PreInternet01 2y ago
Nah. I have a cargo bike with a front carrier platform that allows/requires me to lock my front wheel when parking/loading. If I forget to unlock my front wheel, I can go about my ways just fine: it's just unpleasant. I also ride snowmobiles on a regular basis, and if you require any effort at steering (like at braking!), that's pretty much an error: you shouldn't need to do it! And that's even at 60km/h...
- Arelius 2y ago
  I responded to your other post, but I think the confusion is mostly about considering different forms of bikes, and their respective weights compared to the rider. Also, I'll be honest I haven't ridden a snowmobile in so long that I don't really have a mental model of it. I'm interested though, Do you think they are a similar experience? Don't they normally have like many more points of contact?
  - PreInternet01 2y ago
    The 'point of contact' on a snowmobile is mostly the track, which is like, 40x350cm (15x150"), or whatever, plus some small front skis, but, really these don't do very much. Still, the experience is exactly the same as a 'manual' bike (here's mine: https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl). Point is: you need to really steer beyond leaning? You either hit a over-40-degree turn (not uncommon even in Amsterdam!) or you did something wrong. You need to brake? Either an idiot crossed your path, or you definitely did something wrong!