4 ms·

Good luck leaning a bike in motion without turning the front wheel.

hagbard_c 3y ago
No problem leaning a bike in motion without turning the front wheel, all you have to do is shift your balance. It won't turn though, just go straight while leaning left or right.
- Arelius 3y ago
  I mean, this is a bit subtle. With a fixed front fork, it's very difficult to get a bike to lean. It's just the case that with a free front fork, shifting balance may be enough to get the wheel to counter steer, which can initiate a deeper lean. Having said that, it's 100% the case that a 2 wheeled bike with rounded tires in a lean will turn. Just consider that the circumference of the tire shortens as you approach the edge, it must travel a shorter distance per revolution. so without sliding, it clearly needs to turn. In-fact, at speed, the lean of a bike is the primary factor that contributes to the turn.
  - hagbard_c 3y ago
    It isn't difficult at all, it is just a matter of hanging to the side of the bike while pushing it to the other side. Rounded tyres do not make the bike turn either since both of them lean at the same angle and thus have a similar effective circumference. The same happens when you cycle with a strong side wind, you'll lean towards the wind to keep the bike from being blown over. The way you enter the leaning position is different though since you're not leaning away from the bike, instead you (unconsciously) make a slight turn towards the wind to get the bike to lean.
PreInternet01 3y ago
Why "good luck?" I'm an avid biker (the manually powered type, mostly, but sometimes also snowmobiles), and most 1-20 (I guess?) degree turns that I make do not involve turning my front wheel at all (in the sense that: I don't move my hands consciously). Now, for wider turns, you do need to turn your front, but even then, it's usually in the opposite direction! Anyway, on snow mobiles, you really don't want to need your steering handles, as they don't control a wheel, but skis! And staying on the trail mostly involves reducing speed and, well, leaning. By the time you really need your steering handles, or your brakes, you're really already in trouble...
- Arelius 3y ago
  > turns that I make do not involve turning my front wheel at all (in the sense that: I don't move my hands consciously). In all likelihood you are doing it unconsciously, generally, as one goes to initiate, say a right-hand turn, as you begin to lean right, you also apply a slight additional pressure to the right handle bar, which steers the wheel to the left, this initiates counter-steer which leans the bike to the right. With a stable bike, and a fixed front fork, it would be exceedingly difficult to initiate a lean significant enough to navigate most roads at the speed that we do.
  - PreInternet01 3y ago
    Nah. I have a cargo bike with a front carrier platform that allows/requires me to lock my front wheel when parking/loading. If I forget to unlock my front wheel, I can go about my ways just fine: it's just unpleasant. I also ride snowmobiles on a regular basis, and if you require any effort at steering (like at braking!), that's pretty much an error: you shouldn't need to do it! And that's even at 60km/h...
    - Arelius 3y ago
      I responded to your other post, but I think the confusion is mostly about considering different forms of bikes, and their respective weights compared to the rider. Also, I'll be honest I haven't ridden a snowmobile in so long that I don't really have a mental model of it. I'm interested though, Do you think they are a similar experience? Don't they normally have like many more points of contact?
      - PreInternet01 3y ago
        The 'point of contact' on a snowmobile is mostly the track, which is like, 40x350cm (15x150"), or whatever, plus some small front skis, but, really these don't do very much. Still, the experience is exactly the same as a 'manual' bike (here's mine: https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl). Point is: you need to really steer beyond leaning? You either hit a over-40-degree turn (not uncommon even in Amsterdam!) or you did something wrong. You need to brake? Either an idiot crossed your path, or you definitely did something wrong!

No problem leaning a bike in motion without turning the front wheel, all you have to do is shift your balance. It won't turn though, just go straight while leaning left or right.

Arelius 3y ago
I mean, this is a bit subtle. With a fixed front fork, it's very difficult to get a bike to lean. It's just the case that with a free front fork, shifting balance may be enough to get the wheel to counter steer, which can initiate a deeper lean. Having said that, it's 100% the case that a 2 wheeled bike with rounded tires in a lean will turn. Just consider that the circumference of the tire shortens as you approach the edge, it must travel a shorter distance per revolution. so without sliding, it clearly needs to turn. In-fact, at speed, the lean of a bike is the primary factor that contributes to the turn.
- hagbard_c 3y ago
  It isn't difficult at all, it is just a matter of hanging to the side of the bike while pushing it to the other side. Rounded tyres do not make the bike turn either since both of them lean at the same angle and thus have a similar effective circumference. The same happens when you cycle with a strong side wind, you'll lean towards the wind to keep the bike from being blown over. The way you enter the leaning position is different though since you're not leaning away from the bike, instead you (unconsciously) make a slight turn towards the wind to get the bike to lean.

PreInternet01 3y ago

Why "good luck?" I'm an avid biker (the manually powered type, mostly, but sometimes also snowmobiles), and most 1-20 (I guess?) degree turns that I make do not involve turning my front wheel at all (in the sense that: I don't move my hands consciously). Now, for wider turns, you do need to turn your front, but even then, it's usually in the opposite direction! Anyway, on snow mobiles, you really don't want to need your steering handles, as they don't control a wheel, but skis! And staying on the trail mostly involves reducing speed and, well, leaning. By the time you really need your steering handles, or your brakes, you're really already in trouble...

Arelius 3y ago
> turns that I make do not involve turning my front wheel at all (in the sense that: I don't move my hands consciously). In all likelihood you are doing it unconsciously, generally, as one goes to initiate, say a right-hand turn, as you begin to lean right, you also apply a slight additional pressure to the right handle bar, which steers the wheel to the left, this initiates counter-steer which leans the bike to the right. With a stable bike, and a fixed front fork, it would be exceedingly difficult to initiate a lean significant enough to navigate most roads at the speed that we do.
- PreInternet01 3y ago
  Nah. I have a cargo bike with a front carrier platform that allows/requires me to lock my front wheel when parking/loading. If I forget to unlock my front wheel, I can go about my ways just fine: it's just unpleasant. I also ride snowmobiles on a regular basis, and if you require any effort at steering (like at braking!), that's pretty much an error: you shouldn't need to do it! And that's even at 60km/h...
  - Arelius 3y ago
    I responded to your other post, but I think the confusion is mostly about considering different forms of bikes, and their respective weights compared to the rider. Also, I'll be honest I haven't ridden a snowmobile in so long that I don't really have a mental model of it. I'm interested though, Do you think they are a similar experience? Don't they normally have like many more points of contact?
    - PreInternet01 3y ago
      The 'point of contact' on a snowmobile is mostly the track, which is like, 40x350cm (15x150"), or whatever, plus some small front skis, but, really these don't do very much. Still, the experience is exactly the same as a 'manual' bike (here's mine: https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl https://www.gazelle.nl/puurnl). Point is: you need to really steer beyond leaning? You either hit a over-40-degree turn (not uncommon even in Amsterdam!) or you did something wrong. You need to brake? Either an idiot crossed your path, or you definitely did something wrong!