4 ms·

There's a lot of intelligence/hawk support for ensuring FISA remains intact. I.e. historical GOP conservative.

by ethbr1 3y ago

chrisco255 3y ago
They're called neocons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism), just one wing of U.S. conservatism and honestly plenty of modern Democrats could be described in this camp as well.
- ecommerceguy 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    No, they're not unelected, as evidenced by everyone you mention having held an elected office.
    - ecommerceguy 3y ago
      Please read again, I was referring to bureaucrats, and I think my statement makes that obvious.
      - ethbr1 3y ago
        So do you have a problem with the elected officials who push for the policies you're against? Or the idea of a bureaucracy? Your comment was a bit all over the place in attributing the world's ills.
        ecommerceguy 3y ago
        >>So do you have a problem with the elected officials who push for the policies you're against? Yes >>Or the idea of a bureaucracy The discussion is about an article outlining the abuse of bureaucratic powers for political purposes. Of fucking course I'm against this. I honestly have no idea who would be pro government abuse, are you? If so, you're part of the problem too.
        ethbr1 3y ago
        I'm in favor of a bureaucracy, because I think it's the only proven method of implement government at scale. What would you, instead?
        ecommerceguy 3y ago
        I think our government (USA), whether full of political appointees or "civil servants" aka bureaucracy, has grown far too large and should be scaled back tremendously. Further, the USA is a Republic of Sovereign States with the Federal Government for protection of borders and interstate commerce as outlined in the Constitution. For instance, something like the Department of Education, is overstepping the role of Federal Government, and I think the statistics prove me correct. I also believe that FBI/CIA has been weaponized in favor of what would historically been perceived as Un-American activities across the globe. Let's start with the Iran-Contra affair and the very well known fact of cocaine running ruining the mostly black inner cities of the 1980's. This in my opinion is something heads should roll for, and those involved should be held accountable and thrown in jail. I think these people are POS, and frankly if you disagree with my statement, I think you are too. It's inhumane and disgusting.
        ethbr1 3y ago
        Ah! That's a clearer fundamental disagreement. To me, much of the US's power comes from its centralization and radically ceding that back to the states would leave it diminished on the world stage. The CIA/FBI rabbit hole, to me, collapses down to the "Who watches the watchers?" question. I'm of the opinion that there will always need to be clandestine activities (domestic and international), that proficiency in that domain generates outsized benefits to a nation, and that oversight should continually be improved and strengthened (but is fundamentally impossible to accomplish completely, due to the nature of the enterprise).
        ecommerceguy 3y ago
        [flagged]
richrichie 3y ago
The neocons are all part of democratic apparatus now. Once it became known that they were not going to get war profiteering under Trump, they switched wagons. Democratic party is the party of neocons now.
- ted_bunny 3y ago
  Who has switched? Or do you mean voters? How do you know this?
- aaa_aaa 3y ago
  Huh. now that they do not please their voters, conclusion is that they are infiltrated by neocons? I don't think they are changed. They just showed their true colors with the recent events.
- Dig1t 3y ago
  I don't know why you're being downvoted, it is true. Even though Trump sucked, he did start 0 new wars. Whereas the current administration has signed us up for several conflicts, which the neocons love.
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    It seems like anything critical of the deep state get immediately downvoted here and then floats back up after a certain time. There also no argument given as to why the downvotes occur. Maybe downvotes with substantive replys should carry more weight? And theres always shareblue monitoring forums, which is deeply embedded with spooks. Unelecteds heavily vote democrat/big government because of job security. They don't care about your rights hence pro-FISA. As a matter of fact it appears many of them believe your rights are afforded to you by the government, which seems very totalitarian.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      Because when you say emotionally-inflammatory, illogical things, most people will downvote and move on, instead of engaging? If you want a substantive discussion, try dropping the fear-words like "unelected"s: this isn't the Fox News comment section.

There's a lot of intelligence/hawk support for ensuring FISA remains intact. I.e. historical GOP conservative.

by ethbr1 3y ago

There's a lot of intelligence/hawk support for ensuring FISA remains intact. I.e. historical GOP conservative.

They're called neocons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism), just one wing of U.S. conservatism and honestly plenty of modern Democrats could be described in this camp as well.

ecommerceguy 3y ago
[flagged]
- ethbr1 3y ago
  No, they're not unelected, as evidenced by everyone you mention having held an elected office.
  - ecommerceguy 3y ago
    Please read again, I was referring to bureaucrats, and I think my statement makes that obvious.
    - ethbr1 3y ago
      So do you have a problem with the elected officials who push for the policies you're against? Or the idea of a bureaucracy? Your comment was a bit all over the place in attributing the world's ills.
      - ecommerceguy 3y ago
        >>So do you have a problem with the elected officials who push for the policies you're against? Yes >>Or the idea of a bureaucracy The discussion is about an article outlining the abuse of bureaucratic powers for political purposes. Of fucking course I'm against this. I honestly have no idea who would be pro government abuse, are you? If so, you're part of the problem too.
        ethbr1 3y ago
        I'm in favor of a bureaucracy, because I think it's the only proven method of implement government at scale. What would you, instead?
        ecommerceguy 3y ago
        I think our government (USA), whether full of political appointees or "civil servants" aka bureaucracy, has grown far too large and should be scaled back tremendously. Further, the USA is a Republic of Sovereign States with the Federal Government for protection of borders and interstate commerce as outlined in the Constitution. For instance, something like the Department of Education, is overstepping the role of Federal Government, and I think the statistics prove me correct. I also believe that FBI/CIA has been weaponized in favor of what would historically been perceived as Un-American activities across the globe. Let's start with the Iran-Contra affair and the very well known fact of cocaine running ruining the mostly black inner cities of the 1980's. This in my opinion is something heads should roll for, and those involved should be held accountable and thrown in jail. I think these people are POS, and frankly if you disagree with my statement, I think you are too. It's inhumane and disgusting.
        ethbr1 3y ago
        Ah! That's a clearer fundamental disagreement. To me, much of the US's power comes from its centralization and radically ceding that back to the states would leave it diminished on the world stage. The CIA/FBI rabbit hole, to me, collapses down to the "Who watches the watchers?" question. I'm of the opinion that there will always need to be clandestine activities (domestic and international), that proficiency in that domain generates outsized benefits to a nation, and that oversight should continually be improved and strengthened (but is fundamentally impossible to accomplish completely, due to the nature of the enterprise).
        ecommerceguy 3y ago
        [flagged]

richrichie 3y ago

The neocons are all part of democratic apparatus now. Once it became known that they were not going to get war profiteering under Trump, they switched wagons. Democratic party is the party of neocons now.

ted_bunny 3y ago
Who has switched? Or do you mean voters? How do you know this?
aaa_aaa 3y ago
Huh. now that they do not please their voters, conclusion is that they are infiltrated by neocons? I don't think they are changed. They just showed their true colors with the recent events.
Dig1t 3y ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted, it is true. Even though Trump sucked, he did start 0 new wars. Whereas the current administration has signed us up for several conflicts, which the neocons love.
- ecommerceguy 3y ago
  It seems like anything critical of the deep state get immediately downvoted here and then floats back up after a certain time. There also no argument given as to why the downvotes occur. Maybe downvotes with substantive replys should carry more weight? And theres always shareblue monitoring forums, which is deeply embedded with spooks. Unelecteds heavily vote democrat/big government because of job security. They don't care about your rights hence pro-FISA. As a matter of fact it appears many of them believe your rights are afforded to you by the government, which seems very totalitarian.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    Because when you say emotionally-inflammatory, illogical things, most people will downvote and move on, instead of engaging? If you want a substantive discussion, try dropping the fear-words like "unelected"s: this isn't the Fox News comment section.