5 ms·

The success of old Atlas was partly due to the compactness and high power of hydraulic actuators. There’s a lot of actuators to pack into a humanoid robot and i

by Isamu 2y ago

The success of old Atlas was partly due to the compactness and high power of hydraulic actuators. There’s a lot of actuators to pack into a humanoid robot and it takes a lot of power to do backflips. I am betting that this one is less powerful, no backflip.

coffeebeqn 2y ago
They did say it’s for commercial use. Probably for warehouses and such where sadly backflipping is not relevant
- HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
  You'll know AGI has really arrived when we do have factory robots backflipping and doing stupid stuff to amuse themselves.
  - geodel 2y ago
    I feel Robot Unions will have to make backflipping as part of collective bargain agreement.
    - kevindamm 2y ago
      What do we want?? BACKFLIPS. When do we want them? [backflips]
  - coffeebeqn 2y ago
    And posting that to robot tiktok
- jiminymcmoogley 2y ago
  see what i find puzzling is that warehouses have flat floors right? so what benefit does the upfront cost of building something with a bunch of extra actuators for all the joints in 2 legs, and the ongoing running costs of far less mechanically efficient bipedal locomotion have over wheeled movement like their other robot, the Handle, offers? i should mention i know nothing about robots so i'm sure there must be a good reason for it, but this thought has been on my mind ever since I saw george hotz bring it up in the Comma Body reveal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhvt0ZmqmGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhvt0ZmqmGQ as a layperson, i feel like biomimicry only makes sense for hands and arms, at least for the vast majority of commercial use cases
  - philwelch 2y ago
    Stairs.
  - hanniabu 2y ago
    > warehouses have flat floors right "Flat"... with a bunch of cracks, joints, pallet chips, and other debris
  - generuso 2y ago
    You are absolutely right. And this is reflected in the choice of robots deployed in warehouses. For example, Amazon uses hundreds of thousands of simple wheeled floor-jack like robots to move the shelves around [1], and they started doing this many years ago. Meanwhile, they have only a handful of humanoid robots, on experimental basis, trying to decide if they are useful [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULswQgd73Tc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULswQgd73Tc [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8IdbodRG14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8IdbodRG14
adius 2y ago
In this interview, Robert Playter actually says, that the new electronic Atlas is stronger than the old hydraulic one: https://spectrum.ieee.org/atlas-humanoid-robot-ceo-interview https://spectrum.ieee.org/atlas-humanoid-robot-ceo-interview
guugugu 2y ago
Their press release actually says electric atlas is more powerful. Though I wonder if that's higher peak torque, and not so much explosive power required for jumps. A commercial robot doesn't need to do parkour.
- RivieraKid 2y ago
  In that case the question is why did they use hydraulics in the first place.
  - klowrey 2y ago
    Static holds. Once you pressurize the cylinder to make it move to a certain position, it can hold that position without using more energy. This makes sense for quasi-static systems but obviously is a limiting factor for dynamic robots.
  - generuso 2y ago
    Here is a quote from Ben Katz [1], who wrote a dissertation on building the mini-Cheetah at MIT, before joining Boston Dynamics: "The hydraulic legged robots from Boston Dynamics, starting with Big Dog, have set the standard for the performance capabilities of modern legged robots. Hydraulic actuators tend to have high force density and high robustness to impacts, as impact loads are distributed over the large surface area of the hydraulic channels, rather than, for example several small gear teeth. Another compelling reason to use hydraulics, especially for high degree-of-freedom machines, is the relative ease of adding high-force degrees of freedom. For an electric motor driven robots, each actuator needs to be sized for its peak performance, which makes building systems with many degrees of freedom needing high peak power and force at all the joints (and especially at distal joints) very challenging. With a hydraulic system, it is easier to build high-force distal links (ankles, wrists, fingers, etc) without adding significant mass and inertia to the limbs." [1] https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118671/1057343368-MIT.pdf https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118671/105734...
numpad0 2y ago
I still can't search the word "hydroaccumunoid" on Google, that appeared once in one of their promo reels, and still am wondering if the word was literal corporate secret.

by Isamu 2y ago

coffeebeqn 2y ago

They did say it’s for commercial use. Probably for warehouses and such where sadly backflipping is not relevant

HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
You'll know AGI has really arrived when we do have factory robots backflipping and doing stupid stuff to amuse themselves.
- geodel 2y ago
  I feel Robot Unions will have to make backflipping as part of collective bargain agreement.
  - kevindamm 2y ago
    What do we want?? BACKFLIPS. When do we want them? [backflips]
- coffeebeqn 2y ago
  And posting that to robot tiktok
jiminymcmoogley 2y ago
see what i find puzzling is that warehouses have flat floors right? so what benefit does the upfront cost of building something with a bunch of extra actuators for all the joints in 2 legs, and the ongoing running costs of far less mechanically efficient bipedal locomotion have over wheeled movement like their other robot, the Handle, offers? i should mention i know nothing about robots so i'm sure there must be a good reason for it, but this thought has been on my mind ever since I saw george hotz bring it up in the Comma Body reveal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhvt0ZmqmGQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhvt0ZmqmGQ as a layperson, i feel like biomimicry only makes sense for hands and arms, at least for the vast majority of commercial use cases
- philwelch 2y ago
  Stairs.
- hanniabu 2y ago
  > warehouses have flat floors right "Flat"... with a bunch of cracks, joints, pallet chips, and other debris
- generuso 2y ago
  You are absolutely right. And this is reflected in the choice of robots deployed in warehouses. For example, Amazon uses hundreds of thousands of simple wheeled floor-jack like robots to move the shelves around [1], and they started doing this many years ago. Meanwhile, they have only a handful of humanoid robots, on experimental basis, trying to decide if they are useful [2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULswQgd73Tc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULswQgd73Tc [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8IdbodRG14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8IdbodRG14

adius 2y ago

In this interview, Robert Playter actually says, that the new electronic Atlas is stronger than the old hydraulic one: https://spectrum.ieee.org/atlas-humanoid-robot-ceo-interview https://spectrum.ieee.org/atlas-humanoid-robot-ceo-interview

guugugu 2y ago

Their press release actually says electric atlas is more powerful. Though I wonder if that's higher peak torque, and not so much explosive power required for jumps. A commercial robot doesn't need to do parkour.

RivieraKid 2y ago
In that case the question is why did they use hydraulics in the first place.
- klowrey 2y ago
  Static holds. Once you pressurize the cylinder to make it move to a certain position, it can hold that position without using more energy. This makes sense for quasi-static systems but obviously is a limiting factor for dynamic robots.
- generuso 2y ago
  Here is a quote from Ben Katz [1], who wrote a dissertation on building the mini-Cheetah at MIT, before joining Boston Dynamics: "The hydraulic legged robots from Boston Dynamics, starting with Big Dog, have set the standard for the performance capabilities of modern legged robots. Hydraulic actuators tend to have high force density and high robustness to impacts, as impact loads are distributed over the large surface area of the hydraulic channels, rather than, for example several small gear teeth. Another compelling reason to use hydraulics, especially for high degree-of-freedom machines, is the relative ease of adding high-force degrees of freedom. For an electric motor driven robots, each actuator needs to be sized for its peak performance, which makes building systems with many degrees of freedom needing high peak power and force at all the joints (and especially at distal joints) very challenging. With a hydraulic system, it is easier to build high-force distal links (ankles, wrists, fingers, etc) without adding significant mass and inertia to the limbs." [1] https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118671/1057343368-MIT.pdf https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/118671/105734...

numpad0 2y ago

I still can't search the word "hydroaccumunoid" on Google, that appeared once in one of their promo reels, and still am wondering if the word was literal corporate secret.