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I think the issue here is that arguably startup culture has _redefined_ scam to _not include_ "fake it till you make it gotta get funding" bullshit. In a previo

I think the issue here is that arguably startup culture has _redefined_ scam to _not include_ "fake it till you make it gotta get funding" bullshit. In a previous era that stuff might arguably have been non-controversially been though of as a kind of scam. My own experience with startups is that they often hew as close to the line of scam as they can get away with and this behavior has been normalized.

YetAnotherNick 3y ago
This has nothing to do with startup or current times. That's why I gave example of Google. Google is not a scam in my definition but still has clearly faked gemini demo. Even Wright brothers admitted to faking a lot of news and claims before they could make real working planes.[1][2] [1]: https://www.nps.gov/teachers/classrooms/the-wright-brothers-first-flight-fake-news.htm https://www.nps.gov/teachers/classrooms/the-wright-brothers-... [2]: http://wright-brothers.wikidot.com/ http://wright-brothers.wikidot.com/
- nathan_compton 3y ago
  It still counts as a scam even if someone eventually succeeds. Whether the given thing is a scam depends on whether, at the moment of utterance, the statement is a lie meant to accomplish some goal or not. It doesn't exclude the possibility that success might happen someday. This is what I mean about the bizarre morals of startup hustler types. Lying to extend your runway is still lying and normal people still think its a scam.
  - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
    Do you use any word to distinguish what google did in my example vs what theranos/FTX did? Or would you put both in the same category as one small lie is same as basing existence of a company on lie.
- akaru 3y ago
  Is this the same google that raised money under the motto “don’t do evil”?
  - rasz 3y ago
    Google raised money under the motto of: >Digital Library, “birds of a feather” identified inside sea of information so communities and groups could be tracked in an organized way "Highlands Forum", DLI (NSF, NASA and DARPA), MDDS program, In-Q-Tel etc https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-goo...

YetAnotherNick 3y ago

This has nothing to do with startup or current times. That's why I gave example of Google. Google is not a scam in my definition but still has clearly faked gemini demo. Even Wright brothers admitted to faking a lot of news and claims before they could make real working planes.[1][2] [1]: https://www.nps.gov/teachers/classrooms/the-wright-brothers-first-flight-fake-news.htm https://www.nps.gov/teachers/classrooms/the-wright-brothers-... [2]: http://wright-brothers.wikidot.com/ http://wright-brothers.wikidot.com/

nathan_compton 3y ago
It still counts as a scam even if someone eventually succeeds. Whether the given thing is a scam depends on whether, at the moment of utterance, the statement is a lie meant to accomplish some goal or not. It doesn't exclude the possibility that success might happen someday. This is what I mean about the bizarre morals of startup hustler types. Lying to extend your runway is still lying and normal people still think its a scam.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  Do you use any word to distinguish what google did in my example vs what theranos/FTX did? Or would you put both in the same category as one small lie is same as basing existence of a company on lie.
akaru 3y ago
Is this the same google that raised money under the motto “don’t do evil”?
- rasz 3y ago
  Google raised money under the motto of: >Digital Library, “birds of a feather” identified inside sea of information so communities and groups could be tracked in an organized way "Highlands Forum", DLI (NSF, NASA and DARPA), MDDS program, In-Q-Tel etc https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-google-e836451a959e https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-goo...