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We (I am one, though fortunate to have excellent insurance) really are not one such group. https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/16-tips-to-help-you-affor

by 0xBDB 2y ago

We (I am one, though fortunate to have excellent insurance) really are not one such group. https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/16-tips-to-help-you-afford-your-diabetes-medication-and-supplies#where-to-start https://www.healthline.com/health/diabetes/16-tips-to-help-y... I am not a fan of the American healthcare system. Navigating it takes brains and effort that shouldn't be required. But if you have them it is essentially not possible to die here from lack of healthcare, and it's possible but surprisingly difficult to go bankrupt (except from lost wages, which is also a leading cause of bankruptcy in the UK).

zrn900 2y ago
> But if you have them it is essentially not possible to die here from lack of healthcare, and it's possible but surprisingly difficult to go bankrupt That's a false myth. https://www.quora.com/Were-there-any-American-citizens-living-on-US-soil-who-died-because-they-couldnt-afford-healthcare https://www.quora.com/Were-there-any-American-citizens-livin... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insur...
- 0xBDB 2y ago
  Yes, so this is where the brains and effort (and time, forgot time) come in. The anecdotes in your links (that I read - can't get through all of them right now) have a common theme, which is that people died because they either needed very expensive and/or experimental treatment that probably would not be affordably provided to them under any plausible healthcare system, or else they got a bill, decided they couldn't pay it, and did without or tried to self-ration their healthcare. The correct course of action in that case is to call the healthcare provider and negotiate A) a 90+% discount and B) a payment plan, both of which are pretty readily available in the American system. You have to know that's possible, and you shouldn't have to, but it is possible. Then you reach out to the charities, government programs, and/or nonprofits from my original link to cover what you still can't afford. Same deal if you get screwed by an insurance company as in the Guardian article. This is, again, not something I'm trying to defend. It's not the way a sane healthcare system would run. But it is a system that works, more or less, for those who know how to work within it.
  - zrn900 2y ago
    > The anecdotes The anecdotes show that this is not an 'occasional' or 'edge case' thing but a systemic thing. The statistics show that at least 40,000 people die a year for not having enough money for healthcare and these are the people we know. The statistics don't include those who never go to the hospital to avoid risking medical bankruptcy for their families even if they die themselves. Just being in a hospital bed for one night without anything being done costs $3000/night, whereas waiting in the ER without anything being done can cost $100/hour. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/woman-gets-688-35-er-bill-for-spending-7-hours-in-the-waiting-room-without-being-treated-11635794483 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/woman-gets-688-35-er-bill-... This is a systemic thing. Its not 'not a sane healthcare system'. Its literally a machine that kills people to maximize profit. And it became like this only because people let it and justified this or that other thing in the system.
    - 0xBDB 2y ago
      > Just being in a hospital bed for one night without anything being done costs $3000/night No, it doesn't. It costs whatever you can negotiate it to cost. I've been without insurance; one experience isn't data, but in my experience just telling the hospital you haven't got insurance is, again, good for 90+% off by itself. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/28/you-can-negotiate-your-medical-bills-heres-how-to-lower-your-costs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/28/you-can-negotiate-your-medic... Hospitals (ed: non-profit ones, but I'm pretty sure similar rules apply elsewhere) in particular are required by federal law to have 'well-publicized' financial assistance policies. https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/financial-assistance-policies-faps https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/financial-assistan... > Its literally a machine that kills people to maximize profit. If that were true it would do a good job of maximizing profit. It's not even that good. Healthcare margins in the U.S. are 0.7%, which sucks. If you're the proverbial evil billionaire or whatever you'd rather own almost anything else. https://www.nadapayments.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profit-margin-in-the-healthcare-industry https://www.nadapayments.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profit... The whole reason I started this thread is because it bugs me when we attribute to malice what is obviously stupidity.
joquarky 2y ago
> But if you have them What if your problem is with your mental health? It's not like mental health problems are fringe lately. It feels to me like you're speaking as though you are in the middle of the bell curve, but from my perspective people who can navigate this system are an exception.

by 0xBDB 2y ago

zrn900 2y ago

> But if you have them it is essentially not possible to die here from lack of healthcare, and it's possible but surprisingly difficult to go bankrupt That's a false myth. https://www.quora.com/Were-there-any-American-citizens-living-on-US-soil-who-died-because-they-couldnt-afford-healthcare https://www.quora.com/Were-there-any-American-citizens-livin... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insur...

0xBDB 2y ago
Yes, so this is where the brains and effort (and time, forgot time) come in. The anecdotes in your links (that I read - can't get through all of them right now) have a common theme, which is that people died because they either needed very expensive and/or experimental treatment that probably would not be affordably provided to them under any plausible healthcare system, or else they got a bill, decided they couldn't pay it, and did without or tried to self-ration their healthcare. The correct course of action in that case is to call the healthcare provider and negotiate A) a 90+% discount and B) a payment plan, both of which are pretty readily available in the American system. You have to know that's possible, and you shouldn't have to, but it is possible. Then you reach out to the charities, government programs, and/or nonprofits from my original link to cover what you still can't afford. Same deal if you get screwed by an insurance company as in the Guardian article. This is, again, not something I'm trying to defend. It's not the way a sane healthcare system would run. But it is a system that works, more or less, for those who know how to work within it.
- zrn900 2y ago
  > The anecdotes The anecdotes show that this is not an 'occasional' or 'edge case' thing but a systemic thing. The statistics show that at least 40,000 people die a year for not having enough money for healthcare and these are the people we know. The statistics don't include those who never go to the hospital to avoid risking medical bankruptcy for their families even if they die themselves. Just being in a hospital bed for one night without anything being done costs $3000/night, whereas waiting in the ER without anything being done can cost $100/hour. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/woman-gets-688-35-er-bill-for-spending-7-hours-in-the-waiting-room-without-being-treated-11635794483 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/woman-gets-688-35-er-bill-... This is a systemic thing. Its not 'not a sane healthcare system'. Its literally a machine that kills people to maximize profit. And it became like this only because people let it and justified this or that other thing in the system.
  - 0xBDB 2y ago
    > Just being in a hospital bed for one night without anything being done costs $3000/night No, it doesn't. It costs whatever you can negotiate it to cost. I've been without insurance; one experience isn't data, but in my experience just telling the hospital you haven't got insurance is, again, good for 90+% off by itself. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/28/you-can-negotiate-your-medical-bills-heres-how-to-lower-your-costs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/28/you-can-negotiate-your-medic... Hospitals (ed: non-profit ones, but I'm pretty sure similar rules apply elsewhere) in particular are required by federal law to have 'well-publicized' financial assistance policies. https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/financial-assistance-policies-faps https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/financial-assistan... > Its literally a machine that kills people to maximize profit. If that were true it would do a good job of maximizing profit. It's not even that good. Healthcare margins in the U.S. are 0.7%, which sucks. If you're the proverbial evil billionaire or whatever you'd rather own almost anything else. https://www.nadapayments.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profit-margin-in-the-healthcare-industry https://www.nadapayments.com/blog/what-is-the-average-profit... The whole reason I started this thread is because it bugs me when we attribute to malice what is obviously stupidity.

joquarky 2y ago

> But if you have them What if your problem is with your mental health? It's not like mental health problems are fringe lately. It feels to me like you're speaking as though you are in the middle of the bell curve, but from my perspective people who can navigate this system are an exception.