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She was 17 or maybe 18. I would make my own college decisions slightly differently in retrospect, so I can't put all the blame on a 17 year old. She probably h

She was 17 or maybe 18. I would make my own college decisions slightly differently in retrospect, so I can't put all the blame on a 17 year old. She probably had lots of different advice, some of it contradictory, incomplete or optimistic.

zero-sharp 3y ago
I think this is the right take. It's really easy to nitpick the decision making in retrospect, but I think people need perspective. Are we expecting all 18 year olds to be good financial planners now? I certainly wasn't educated on the long term consequences of debt when I was that age and I was relatively well off. We are, after all, discussing education. So the person who is striving for an education is being criticized for not being financially educated enough from the start? I know that somebody is going to get on my case for defending ignorance. But maybe we shouldn't have systems in place that allow millions of people to make the same wrong decision? Fault can lie on both sides. Maybe the difference here is that she chose to pay for a masters, which is a graduate degree. I think the personal responsibility argument carries more weight at that point.
- codydh 3y ago
  Agreed. There's a lot of blaming 18 year olds for taking out loans (which many of them were encouraged to take) pursuing degrees that might not earn enough to pay off (while they were encouraged to follow their heart). The real issue is that schools are too expensive. It shouldn't be a mistake that takes a lifetime to pay back if you pursue a degree that "the marketplace" doesn't reward with a six- or seven-figure salary.
tejohnso 3y ago
> so I can't put all the blame on a 17 year old Oh there's plenty of blame to go around for sure. The banks, the schools, the government. Even the businesses supplying the job market with opportunities that over emphasize post secondary. But at 17 or 18 you're not completely blameless either. You know there are consequences for the decisions you make and that you are ultimately responsible for your own actions. This is taught from grade school.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Is there any other decision with such long lasting consequences? Having children as a teenager, but I can't think of anything else. We don't give large loans to teenagers for any other reason. Meanwhile teachers, parents, older students, friends and so on say "follow your heart" and it will all work out.
  - tejohnso 3y ago
    > Is there any other decision with such long lasting consequences? As a young adult? Let's see... Drinking and driving, unprotected premarital sex, drug use and abuse...there are plenty. These are all decisions that a 17 or 18 year old has to make very regularly and the wrong decision can be very harmful. To your point though, the decision around this massive student loan racket is the only one I can think of that was / is actively encouraged by so many parents and educators. Like I said, there's plenty of blame to go around. But that doesn't absolve the 17 or 18 year old of blame.
    - iteria 3y ago
      Except with all those examples you gave, there are almost not parents that would encourage their child to do that. They would be cautioned over years not to do so. With college that's not the case at all. It is purely happenstance that I don't have loans from school. I knew college was expensive, but the extent of the expense, was not clear to me at all surrounded by a family who had never gone to college. I avoided loans because an in state school happen to be good enough for my teenage dreams and my state had a series of grants for poor and intelligent students. It could have gone very differently though and no one would have told me it was a bad idea.

zero-sharp 3y ago

I think this is the right take. It's really easy to nitpick the decision making in retrospect, but I think people need perspective. Are we expecting all 18 year olds to be good financial planners now? I certainly wasn't educated on the long term consequences of debt when I was that age and I was relatively well off. We are, after all, discussing education. So the person who is striving for an education is being criticized for not being financially educated enough from the start? I know that somebody is going to get on my case for defending ignorance. But maybe we shouldn't have systems in place that allow millions of people to make the same wrong decision? Fault can lie on both sides. Maybe the difference here is that she chose to pay for a masters, which is a graduate degree. I think the personal responsibility argument carries more weight at that point.

codydh 3y ago
Agreed. There's a lot of blaming 18 year olds for taking out loans (which many of them were encouraged to take) pursuing degrees that might not earn enough to pay off (while they were encouraged to follow their heart). The real issue is that schools are too expensive. It shouldn't be a mistake that takes a lifetime to pay back if you pursue a degree that "the marketplace" doesn't reward with a six- or seven-figure salary.

tejohnso 3y ago

> so I can't put all the blame on a 17 year old Oh there's plenty of blame to go around for sure. The banks, the schools, the government. Even the businesses supplying the job market with opportunities that over emphasize post secondary. But at 17 or 18 you're not completely blameless either. You know there are consequences for the decisions you make and that you are ultimately responsible for your own actions. This is taught from grade school.

Symbiote 3y ago
Is there any other decision with such long lasting consequences? Having children as a teenager, but I can't think of anything else. We don't give large loans to teenagers for any other reason. Meanwhile teachers, parents, older students, friends and so on say "follow your heart" and it will all work out.
- tejohnso 3y ago
  > Is there any other decision with such long lasting consequences? As a young adult? Let's see... Drinking and driving, unprotected premarital sex, drug use and abuse...there are plenty. These are all decisions that a 17 or 18 year old has to make very regularly and the wrong decision can be very harmful. To your point though, the decision around this massive student loan racket is the only one I can think of that was / is actively encouraged by so many parents and educators. Like I said, there's plenty of blame to go around. But that doesn't absolve the 17 or 18 year old of blame.
  - iteria 3y ago
    Except with all those examples you gave, there are almost not parents that would encourage their child to do that. They would be cautioned over years not to do so. With college that's not the case at all. It is purely happenstance that I don't have loans from school. I knew college was expensive, but the extent of the expense, was not clear to me at all surrounded by a family who had never gone to college. I avoided loans because an in state school happen to be good enough for my teenage dreams and my state had a series of grants for poor and intelligent students. It could have gone very differently though and no one would have told me it was a bad idea.