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Put another way, they took the gains in technology and process improvements and banked them for themselves, releasing a new generation that achieves similar per

by xmodem 2y ago

Put another way, they took the gains in technology and process improvements and banked them for themselves, releasing a new generation that achieves similar performance (in some cases worse) to last gen, albeit at an improved power envelope, at the same price as last gen, but that they have higher margins on. The fact they can do this speaks to the lack of competition in the GPU market at the midrange and up. Compare this to the CPU market, where we now have Intel and AMD giving it everything to leapfrog each other every 6-9 months. I don't begrudge nvidia wanting to spend a generation consolidating their market position - that's their right - just as it's mine to look at a GPU that performs roughly the same as one I bought 7 years ago at almost the same price and say "no thanks".

MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
> releasing a new generation that achieves similar performance (in some cases worse) to last gen Afaik the new gen still manages to improve over the old one, albeit modestly, do you know of an example where is that not the case?
- xmodem 2y ago
  See this GN review: https://youtu.be/WS0sfOb_sVM?t=666&si=Xt62b_2BfQM-fnuH https://youtu.be/WS0sfOb_sVM?t=666&si=Xt62b_2BfQM-fnuH Specifically, at 4K, the 3060 outperforms the 4060 in Cyberpunk. Most of the charts do show a gain, but I'd describe it as marginal rather than modest.
  - MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
    Yeah the smaller memory interface hurts at 4k, that is unfortunately to be expected. Raw rasterizer/raytracer power shouldn't regress It think.
dahart 2y ago
> a GPU that performs roughly the same as one I bought 7 years ago Out of curiosity, which GPUs are you referring to, and how are you measuring or comparing perf?
- xmodem 2y ago
  1080Ti vs 4060Ti. Factoring in nvidia's price creep and a worse exchange rate, the 4060Ti costs today roughly what I paid for my 1080Ti 7 years ago. I'm comparing perf by looking at sites likes userbenchmark and reading/watching reviews of newer cards. I'm running into games I can't play at a level that I'm happy with, but based on reviews I don't think a 4060 or 4060Ti would make a meaningful difference.
  - dahart 2y ago
    That’s a very tricky comparison at best, 3 gens up but 2 product lines down. Comparing 1060 to 4060, or 1080 to 4080 might be more fair, even accounting for the skew in product lines. I’m not sure how you’re doing the price comparison. 1080ti launched at $699 (with inflation that’s $870 today). The 4060ti launched at $399. Why does that seem the same to you? We’re in a ray tracing thread and for ray tracing, there’s no contest, the 4060ti wins there by a long way. UserBench says today the 4060ti is 17% faster for 20% lower price today, which is about 33% better perf per dollar… which interestingly tends to match their user score and sentiment. https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-4060-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Ti/4149vs3918 https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-4060-Ti-vs-... Also worth noting that some old games are bottlenecked on the software, not on the GPU, so it’s not surprising to find a game that was around for the 1080 or before and doesn’t get any better with more modern GPUs. Comparing the 1080 to the 4080, fp32 perf went up ~5x, and due to Amdahl’s law, game benchmarks tend to see more like ~3x in overall system perf.
    - xmodem 2y ago
      > Comparing ... might be more fair, I don't make purchasing decisions based on what's 'fair', I look at what capabilities I have, what I lack, and what my budget is. > Why does that seem the same to you? Exchange rate. But you make a valid point that I should also factor in inflation. > We’re in a ray tracing thread and for ray tracing, there’s no contest, the 4060ti wins there by a long way. It wins in the sense that it can do ray tracing while the 1080Ti cannot, but based on my understanding, the xx60-tier cards aren't viable for raytracing at 60fps without DLSS anyway, and I'm still not convinced I want to consider DLSS performance to be the number I care about in my purchasing decisions. > UserBench says today the 4060ti is 17% faster for 20% lower price today, The most important question I look at is "what games can I run at what resolution" and I don't think there's a single game I can get acceptable performance at 4K on a 4060Ti or even a 4070, that I can't get acceptable 4K performance on a 1080Ti. There are probably a couple that I could run at 1080p that I have to run at 720p currently. I'm not using a variable/high refresh rate monitor and i'm not playing competitive shooters.

by xmodem 2y ago

MrBuddyCasino 2y ago

> releasing a new generation that achieves similar performance (in some cases worse) to last gen Afaik the new gen still manages to improve over the old one, albeit modestly, do you know of an example where is that not the case?

xmodem 2y ago
See this GN review: https://youtu.be/WS0sfOb_sVM?t=666&si=Xt62b_2BfQM-fnuH https://youtu.be/WS0sfOb_sVM?t=666&si=Xt62b_2BfQM-fnuH Specifically, at 4K, the 3060 outperforms the 4060 in Cyberpunk. Most of the charts do show a gain, but I'd describe it as marginal rather than modest.
- MrBuddyCasino 2y ago
  Yeah the smaller memory interface hurts at 4k, that is unfortunately to be expected. Raw rasterizer/raytracer power shouldn't regress It think.

dahart 2y ago

> a GPU that performs roughly the same as one I bought 7 years ago Out of curiosity, which GPUs are you referring to, and how are you measuring or comparing perf?

xmodem 2y ago
1080Ti vs 4060Ti. Factoring in nvidia's price creep and a worse exchange rate, the 4060Ti costs today roughly what I paid for my 1080Ti 7 years ago. I'm comparing perf by looking at sites likes userbenchmark and reading/watching reviews of newer cards. I'm running into games I can't play at a level that I'm happy with, but based on reviews I don't think a 4060 or 4060Ti would make a meaningful difference.
- dahart 2y ago
  That’s a very tricky comparison at best, 3 gens up but 2 product lines down. Comparing 1060 to 4060, or 1080 to 4080 might be more fair, even accounting for the skew in product lines. I’m not sure how you’re doing the price comparison. 1080ti launched at $699 (with inflation that’s $870 today). The 4060ti launched at $399. Why does that seem the same to you? We’re in a ray tracing thread and for ray tracing, there’s no contest, the 4060ti wins there by a long way. UserBench says today the 4060ti is 17% faster for 20% lower price today, which is about 33% better perf per dollar… which interestingly tends to match their user score and sentiment. https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-4060-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1080-Ti/4149vs3918 https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-4060-Ti-vs-... Also worth noting that some old games are bottlenecked on the software, not on the GPU, so it’s not surprising to find a game that was around for the 1080 or before and doesn’t get any better with more modern GPUs. Comparing the 1080 to the 4080, fp32 perf went up ~5x, and due to Amdahl’s law, game benchmarks tend to see more like ~3x in overall system perf.
  - xmodem 2y ago
    > Comparing ... might be more fair, I don't make purchasing decisions based on what's 'fair', I look at what capabilities I have, what I lack, and what my budget is. > Why does that seem the same to you? Exchange rate. But you make a valid point that I should also factor in inflation. > We’re in a ray tracing thread and for ray tracing, there’s no contest, the 4060ti wins there by a long way. It wins in the sense that it can do ray tracing while the 1080Ti cannot, but based on my understanding, the xx60-tier cards aren't viable for raytracing at 60fps without DLSS anyway, and I'm still not convinced I want to consider DLSS performance to be the number I care about in my purchasing decisions. > UserBench says today the 4060ti is 17% faster for 20% lower price today, The most important question I look at is "what games can I run at what resolution" and I don't think there's a single game I can get acceptable performance at 4K on a 4060Ti or even a 4070, that I can't get acceptable 4K performance on a 1080Ti. There are probably a couple that I could run at 1080p that I have to run at 720p currently. I'm not using a variable/high refresh rate monitor and i'm not playing competitive shooters.