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I work with a lot of “doctorate-level professionals”. They are as flawed as everyone else. You took “don’t reimplement the browser”, something that is general

I work with a lot of “doctorate-level professionals”. They are as flawed as everyone else. You took “don’t reimplement the browser”, something that is generally incredibly true, and cargo-culted it into placing some old farts on a pedestal just because they were there ‘first’.

kunley 3y ago
That's still an anecdotal evidence (that you in particular find them flawed) against a common sense.
thesuitonym 3y ago
You're right that they're as flawed as anyone else, but the point still stands that they spent years studying these problems. Years that modern developers, especially front end developers just don't have. I'm not saying these ideas shouldn't be revisited, but if you're going to revisit them, do it at an academic institute, where you can spend time figuring out the problems, not at your commercial job where you have to ship next week, no matter how broken it is.
- Bockit 3y ago
  What’s special about front-end developers here?
  - thesuitonym 3y ago
    Nothing, they're just the ones trying to reinvent forms.
    - betenoire 3y ago
      Nah, these are broad strokes you are painting with. Sure some of them needlessly reinvent, but some back end people needlessly reinvent databases and API basics. But my experience is not the same. It has always been others telling the front-end devs what we "need" to have. I am constantly pushing back with "buttons and links should look and act like buttons and links", "right clicks don't belong in CRUD apps", and "we have a select component that does that". But _BUSINESSES_ want their identity and unique perspective baked into the app.
    - kunley 3y ago
      There is similar reinventing trends movement also in the backend universe. For example, there is a fashion [1] to include hashes in the names of static assets served. But that's what ETag header is invented for, in the RFC since a decade and implemented in all browsers. [1] (I deliberately call it a fashion, not a standard; would rather say that RFC 7232 is a standard in this particular case)
  - OJFord 3y ago
    It's the boot camp point I think, over-represented in FE (but I haven't done a survey and not GP, just my impression) perhaps because it's more tangible/accessible - 'oh yeah I'll learn to make websites'. Or perhaps just that it skews young, which I could believe, and might be easier to find survey data on.

kunley 3y ago

That's still an anecdotal evidence (that you in particular find them flawed) against a common sense.

thesuitonym 3y ago

You're right that they're as flawed as anyone else, but the point still stands that they spent years studying these problems. Years that modern developers, especially front end developers just don't have. I'm not saying these ideas shouldn't be revisited, but if you're going to revisit them, do it at an academic institute, where you can spend time figuring out the problems, not at your commercial job where you have to ship next week, no matter how broken it is.

Bockit 3y ago
What’s special about front-end developers here?
- thesuitonym 3y ago
  Nothing, they're just the ones trying to reinvent forms.
  - betenoire 3y ago
    Nah, these are broad strokes you are painting with. Sure some of them needlessly reinvent, but some back end people needlessly reinvent databases and API basics. But my experience is not the same. It has always been others telling the front-end devs what we "need" to have. I am constantly pushing back with "buttons and links should look and act like buttons and links", "right clicks don't belong in CRUD apps", and "we have a select component that does that". But _BUSINESSES_ want their identity and unique perspective baked into the app.
  - kunley 3y ago
    There is similar reinventing trends movement also in the backend universe. For example, there is a fashion [1] to include hashes in the names of static assets served. But that's what ETag header is invented for, in the RFC since a decade and implemented in all browsers. [1] (I deliberately call it a fashion, not a standard; would rather say that RFC 7232 is a standard in this particular case)
- OJFord 3y ago
  It's the boot camp point I think, over-represented in FE (but I haven't done a survey and not GP, just my impression) perhaps because it's more tangible/accessible - 'oh yeah I'll learn to make websites'. Or perhaps just that it skews young, which I could believe, and might be easier to find survey data on.