4 ms·

> It's also multiplatform for real, not like C# where some things are but the goodies are MICROS~1 exclusive. That's absolutely not true. Everything except the

by phito 3y ago

> It's also multiplatform for real, not like C# where some things are but the goodies are MICROS~1 exclusive. That's absolutely not true. Everything except the old GUI frameworks is multiplatform and even runs better on Linux.

cess11 3y ago
Right, seems Blazor and some other things have now been ported. How about the IDE? Personally I don't trust MICROS~1 and fiercely dislike their operating systems, so I'm not exactly engrossed in the details in this area.
- bbkane 3y ago
  Visual Studio is not open source and neither is .NET tooling for VS Code. https://isdotnetopen.com/ https://isdotnetopen.com/ explains a lot of this and has made me avoid .NET as well. Competing languages are pretty good these days and a lot more open.
  - cess11 3y ago
    OK, that looks pretty dire, especially the corporate bullying. Recently I tried running some .NET-stuff under Linux but it was a mess, Wine choked on stuff and even figuring out .NET versions seemed like it would have taken so much of my time that it could easily have bought a MICROS~1 machine. So we just dug out an old one for running that software instead. I've also tried to build some applications under Linux that were supposedly supported, a year or so back, it was also messy. In my dayjob I've built stuff in Java and Racket and when I've built it on the target platform it just runs, it seems like a much nicer experience. I'm sure the Mono folks are doing a great thing and some people say that the Steam compatibility layer is something of a miracle, but it's not like I can shove in the enterprise tools I had to use in a gaming framework. For one GDPR doesn't allow me to load the data if I did.
    - neonsunset 3y ago
      Statements from Miguel De Icaza on .NET in the last three or so years are mostly useful if you would like to baselessly bash the technology and look for anything that can confirm your bias (nowadays he advocates for Swift which is way less FOSS). Of course if you put a stick in the wheel it won't turn. Engineers who are unburdened by prejudice and are up-to-date with industry advances simply do `sudo dnf install dotnet-sdk-8.0` and get on with their life while accounts like in this discussion keep posting how it is """unusable""" on Linux (it runs better, and is more portable for deployment targets (self-contained JIT and AOT) than Python or JVM). Also, Mono (not the Unity fork one) is now just a part of https://github.com/dotnet/runtime https://github.com/dotnet/runtime like CoreCLR and is used for targets which CoreCLR is not suitable for or does not support yet like WASM (NativeAOT-LLVM is in the experimental stage).
      - bbkane 3y ago
        I suppose you didn't read the link. It's not complaining about usability of deployed .NET apps on Linux, it's complaining about the openness of the tooling and community of the .NET ecosystem.
        neonsunset 3y ago
        I'm very well aware of it. It's mostly attention-seeking bait taking Miguel de Icaza's already critical posts (the only kind shared by his twitter/mastodon persona) even further out of context. You are not arguing this from PoV of evaluating .NET as a technology or seeking to better the software ecosystem, you just found a convenient content for the arguments of your messages. It's known, solved, not new, and people carry on using Rider and VSC as usual.
        bbkane 3y ago
        > You are not arguing this from PoV of evaluating .NET as a technology or seeking to better the software ecosystem I am evaluating .NET from exactly this perspective, and I heavily consider ecosystem openness in that evaluation. .NET has an undeniably more closed-source ecosystem than competitors like Go or Rust or Python. It's fine if you don't think ecosystem openness is as important as I do, that's a totally valid perspective. I'm sorry if my post comes across as implying the way I think is "the only valid perspective" on how to choose a tech stack. My intent was just to answer the OP's question about the openness of the IDE.
- phito 3y ago
  I solely develop in C# on Linux, with Rider (jetbrains IDE).
  - cess11 3y ago
    What cross-platform GUI framework do you use?
    - degrood 3y ago
      Avalonia, Uno, Eto, GtkSharp...
      - neonsunset 3y ago
        There's also Gir.Core which is the way to get a rich abstraction in C# for using GTK4.

by phito 3y ago

cess11 3y ago

Right, seems Blazor and some other things have now been ported. How about the IDE? Personally I don't trust MICROS~1 and fiercely dislike their operating systems, so I'm not exactly engrossed in the details in this area.

bbkane 3y ago
Visual Studio is not open source and neither is .NET tooling for VS Code. https://isdotnetopen.com/ https://isdotnetopen.com/ explains a lot of this and has made me avoid .NET as well. Competing languages are pretty good these days and a lot more open.
- cess11 3y ago
  OK, that looks pretty dire, especially the corporate bullying. Recently I tried running some .NET-stuff under Linux but it was a mess, Wine choked on stuff and even figuring out .NET versions seemed like it would have taken so much of my time that it could easily have bought a MICROS~1 machine. So we just dug out an old one for running that software instead. I've also tried to build some applications under Linux that were supposedly supported, a year or so back, it was also messy. In my dayjob I've built stuff in Java and Racket and when I've built it on the target platform it just runs, it seems like a much nicer experience. I'm sure the Mono folks are doing a great thing and some people say that the Steam compatibility layer is something of a miracle, but it's not like I can shove in the enterprise tools I had to use in a gaming framework. For one GDPR doesn't allow me to load the data if I did.
  - neonsunset 3y ago
    Statements from Miguel De Icaza on .NET in the last three or so years are mostly useful if you would like to baselessly bash the technology and look for anything that can confirm your bias (nowadays he advocates for Swift which is way less FOSS). Of course if you put a stick in the wheel it won't turn. Engineers who are unburdened by prejudice and are up-to-date with industry advances simply do `sudo dnf install dotnet-sdk-8.0` and get on with their life while accounts like in this discussion keep posting how it is """unusable""" on Linux (it runs better, and is more portable for deployment targets (self-contained JIT and AOT) than Python or JVM). Also, Mono (not the Unity fork one) is now just a part of https://github.com/dotnet/runtime https://github.com/dotnet/runtime like CoreCLR and is used for targets which CoreCLR is not suitable for or does not support yet like WASM (NativeAOT-LLVM is in the experimental stage).
    - bbkane 3y ago
      I suppose you didn't read the link. It's not complaining about usability of deployed .NET apps on Linux, it's complaining about the openness of the tooling and community of the .NET ecosystem.
      - neonsunset 3y ago
        I'm very well aware of it. It's mostly attention-seeking bait taking Miguel de Icaza's already critical posts (the only kind shared by his twitter/mastodon persona) even further out of context. You are not arguing this from PoV of evaluating .NET as a technology or seeking to better the software ecosystem, you just found a convenient content for the arguments of your messages. It's known, solved, not new, and people carry on using Rider and VSC as usual.
        bbkane 3y ago
        > You are not arguing this from PoV of evaluating .NET as a technology or seeking to better the software ecosystem I am evaluating .NET from exactly this perspective, and I heavily consider ecosystem openness in that evaluation. .NET has an undeniably more closed-source ecosystem than competitors like Go or Rust or Python. It's fine if you don't think ecosystem openness is as important as I do, that's a totally valid perspective. I'm sorry if my post comes across as implying the way I think is "the only valid perspective" on how to choose a tech stack. My intent was just to answer the OP's question about the openness of the IDE.
phito 3y ago
I solely develop in C# on Linux, with Rider (jetbrains IDE).
- cess11 3y ago
  What cross-platform GUI framework do you use?
  - degrood 3y ago
    Avalonia, Uno, Eto, GtkSharp...
    - neonsunset 3y ago
      There's also Gir.Core which is the way to get a rich abstraction in C# for using GTK4.