4 ms·

We are very fast approaching totalitarianism here in Europe. It is really sad to see. There is basically no free speech anymore and now they want to even track

We are very fast approaching totalitarianism here in Europe. It is really sad to see. There is basically no free speech anymore and now they want to even track and control our private communication. And what's worse is, everyone is so high on moral superiority over other cultures that they cannot even admit to themselves that this could be happening.

ufocia 2y ago
Perfect is the enemy of good.
impossiblefork 2y ago
The commission are certainly deranged, and the UK is certainly deranged, but overall I don't agree that the situation is bad. Maybe in Germany.
- mustafa_pasi 2y ago
  Well Germany is were I live, but if you are any EU citizen you are technically free to come live in Germany, but then you will get your mouth shut and your thoughts policed by the very many German bodies, governmental and otherwise. So in a way even as a non-German you are still affected.
  - ranulo 2y ago
    What are you talking about? There is literally only one opinion that is illegal in Germany and that is to deny that the holocaust happened. Everything else can be published (there can be civil lawsuits later of course, but the state won't stop you unless you are actively treating people).
    - zrn900 2y ago
      https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/16/germany_palestine#:~:text=He%20was%20also%20banned%20from,former%20finance%20minister%20of%20Greece https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/16/germany_palestine#:~:....
    - mustafa_pasi 2y ago
      According to Robert Habeck and the post-Merkel clique, criticizing Israel is antisemitism. Ironically the AfD are Israel sympathizers. But Israeli Jews who have the wrong opinions according to the state of Germany, cannot speak in Germany without getting censored or locked up.
    - ImJamal 2y ago
      Maybe you forgot RT being banned?
pjerem 2y ago
> We are very fast approaching totalitarianism here in Europe. That's false > There is basically no free speech anymore That's a far right narrative and that have never been as false as today given how much we are now unfortunately allowing far right bullshit. > they want to even track and control our private communication. Some executives wants it yes, but this still have to be voted by the European parliament, which is democratically elected and which already voted this [0] . Friendly reminder that European elections are on 6-9 June 2024. 0: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/historic-agreement-on-child-sexual-abuse-proposal-csar-european-parliament-wants-to-remove-chat-control-and-safeguard-secure-encryption/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/historic-agreement-on-child...
- snapcaster 2y ago
  Don't a bunch of european nations have free speech laws and restrictions?
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  >That's a far right narrative and that have never been as false as today given how much we are now unfortunately allowing far right bullshit. You say so, but is it true? If it were obvious, it'd be faster to say the explanation of why it were obvious than to describe as you have. You'd instead be able to say something like 'we have the first amendment, and there aren't any exception-- we don't do anything like that fire in a crowded theater stuff from WWI', and then you'd be done, and you'd have done it in a way that's certain. I don't think it's obvious at all, and it may well be false.
  - mijoharas 2y ago
    What evidence do you have to say that free speech is gone? If you're making an assertion you need evidence, for someone to say "that's not true" in response providing the same amount of evidence is fine.
    - impossiblefork 2y ago
      I don't actually say that we don't have free speech but rather that you never gave an argument that it isn't, and then I followed that up with that isn't obvious that we do have freedom of speech in practice. There was the recent Varoufakis thing, there's all sorts of weird corporate censorship on the web, there's these laws about offensive speech in the UK, there's that weird thing where a politically controversial newspaper run by a Swede in Estonia had its bank account frozen (it was eventually unfrozen after a lawsuit, but that took time, and harassment strategies can harm a publication just as bans can), these arrests of anti-monarchy protestors in the UK-- all that stuff about blank protest signs etc. There's so much weird stuff that it's not obvious that we have freedom of speech. We might, but I am personally not totally sure of the total situation, taking everything into account.

ufocia 2y ago

Perfect is the enemy of good.

impossiblefork 2y ago

The commission are certainly deranged, and the UK is certainly deranged, but overall I don't agree that the situation is bad. Maybe in Germany.

mustafa_pasi 2y ago
Well Germany is were I live, but if you are any EU citizen you are technically free to come live in Germany, but then you will get your mouth shut and your thoughts policed by the very many German bodies, governmental and otherwise. So in a way even as a non-German you are still affected.
- ranulo 2y ago
  What are you talking about? There is literally only one opinion that is illegal in Germany and that is to deny that the holocaust happened. Everything else can be published (there can be civil lawsuits later of course, but the state won't stop you unless you are actively treating people).
  - zrn900 2y ago
    https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/16/germany_palestine#:~:text=He%20was%20also%20banned%20from,former%20finance%20minister%20of%20Greece https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/16/germany_palestine#:~:....
  - mustafa_pasi 2y ago
    According to Robert Habeck and the post-Merkel clique, criticizing Israel is antisemitism. Ironically the AfD are Israel sympathizers. But Israeli Jews who have the wrong opinions according to the state of Germany, cannot speak in Germany without getting censored or locked up.
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    Maybe you forgot RT being banned?

pjerem 2y ago

> We are very fast approaching totalitarianism here in Europe. That's false > There is basically no free speech anymore That's a far right narrative and that have never been as false as today given how much we are now unfortunately allowing far right bullshit. > they want to even track and control our private communication. Some executives wants it yes, but this still have to be voted by the European parliament, which is democratically elected and which already voted this [0] . Friendly reminder that European elections are on 6-9 June 2024. 0: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/historic-agreement-on-child-sexual-abuse-proposal-csar-european-parliament-wants-to-remove-chat-control-and-safeguard-secure-encryption/ https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/historic-agreement-on-child...

snapcaster 2y ago
Don't a bunch of european nations have free speech laws and restrictions?
impossiblefork 2y ago
>That's a far right narrative and that have never been as false as today given how much we are now unfortunately allowing far right bullshit. You say so, but is it true? If it were obvious, it'd be faster to say the explanation of why it were obvious than to describe as you have. You'd instead be able to say something like 'we have the first amendment, and there aren't any exception-- we don't do anything like that fire in a crowded theater stuff from WWI', and then you'd be done, and you'd have done it in a way that's certain. I don't think it's obvious at all, and it may well be false.
- mijoharas 2y ago
  What evidence do you have to say that free speech is gone? If you're making an assertion you need evidence, for someone to say "that's not true" in response providing the same amount of evidence is fine.
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    I don't actually say that we don't have free speech but rather that you never gave an argument that it isn't, and then I followed that up with that isn't obvious that we do have freedom of speech in practice. There was the recent Varoufakis thing, there's all sorts of weird corporate censorship on the web, there's these laws about offensive speech in the UK, there's that weird thing where a politically controversial newspaper run by a Swede in Estonia had its bank account frozen (it was eventually unfrozen after a lawsuit, but that took time, and harassment strategies can harm a publication just as bans can), these arrests of anti-monarchy protestors in the UK-- all that stuff about blank protest signs etc. There's so much weird stuff that it's not obvious that we have freedom of speech. We might, but I am personally not totally sure of the total situation, taking everything into account.