5 ms·

Google Workers Protest Cloud Contract with Israel's Government

83 points by zoobab 3y ago

j0hngalt 3y ago
[dead]
GiorgioG 3y ago
Google workers need to be reminded they work for a company who's mission is to make investors money.
- solarpunk 3y ago
  Some still remember their old motto, I suppose.
  - GiorgioG 3y ago
    I somehow doubt these googlers are old enough to have even heard of that motto.
    - passwordoops 3y ago
      Take over the world?
  - Bluecobra 3y ago
    Move fast and discontinue things?
    - solardev 3y ago
      Beat Altavista at any cost?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mmkos 3y ago
  And I guess tech companies need to be reminded that human lives are more valuable than investors money.
- klyrs 3y ago
  Companies need to be reminded that employees are people with thoughts and feelings and rights.
  - GiorgioG 3y ago
    Not in this employment market.
    - klyrs 3y ago
      We are not slaves. We are not robots. Your philosophy is for bootlickers. That might get you places, but I've got my dignity.
      - GiorgioG 3y ago
        Unless/until you have fuck-you-money, you're a slave too.
        klyrs 3y ago
        Crab bucket mentality, right there.
        GiorgioG 3y ago
        Not at all - but the fact is and will always be that most people will not have fuck-you money and those people will always be at the 'mercy' of their employers to a point. My employer would have to cross a serious line for me to think about leaving on moral grounds. It's a business, as long as they're selling their wares legally, more power to them if they can make more money.
- mrweasel 3y ago
  It's also interesting that this is where they draw the line for some reason. While I agree that the entire situation in Gaza is a catastrophe, some people seem to react "violently" (Not with violence, they just have a lot of feeling tied up in the conflict). I know of companies where people got professional help and had to take time off work due to the war, but most of them don't know anyone in the area, nor are they themselves neither Jewish nor Palestinian. Anyway, I think it's weird that Google employees will react like this over the sale of a service. In it self GCP is pretty harmless and its sold to a democratic government. It's also the Israel government, not just the IDF, so most of the services would presumably be used for peaceful purposes. At the same time these employees are apparently completely fine with Googles invasion of peoples privacy, manipulation, sale of data to shady advertisers with little oversight, collaboration with the US military, collaboration with China and a number of other issues... But no, this is apparently where Google crosses the line. If Google employees where constantly applying internal pressure to management and shareholders to do better it would make more sense, but right now it seems pretty random.
pbiggar 3y ago
Here's a twitter thread that documents the protest directly from the protestors, culminating in their arrest: https://twitter.com/NoTechApartheid/status/1780422217878081790 https://twitter.com/NoTechApartheid/status/17804222178780817...
lolinder 3y ago
I suspect this was posted under such a weird link to get around the dupe checker for the actual source: Google Workers Protest Cloud Contract with Israel's Government 16 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 I further suspect that that story didn't get very much attention in the last submission because there isn't much of a story here: > Just over a dozen people gathered outside Google’s offices in New York and Sunnyvale on Tuesday. Among those in New York was Google cloud software engineer Eddie Hatfield, who was fired days after disrupting Google Israel’s managing director at March’s Mind The Tech, a company-sponsored conference focused on the Israeli tech industry, in early March.
- pc86 3y ago
  The most interesting thing about this is that someone who was recently fired was able to get into the Google Cloud CEO's office. I've been in much lower-profile buildings where security checked everyone in in the lobby and even with an escort you wouldn't be able to just go into the CEO's office.
  - bitvoid 3y ago
    It said that he was one of the protestors that gathered outside the offices. It said that there are groups protesting outside and inside the offices. I imagine the latter group are all current employees.
  - eitally 3y ago
    The Google Cloud CEO's office is in SVL, not NYC (just fyi), so he wasn't there. Additionally, in Google's SVL offices, you can't operate the elevators without a badge (or even get into the elevator lobby without first badging in [or being escorted]. That said, unlike in a lot of companies, the executive office area (for Cloud) is not separated in any way from the offices in the rest of the building. This is not exactly the same as for Alphabet execs (dating back to when Larry & Sergey were running things), with separate private parking, private elevator and partly inaccessible office spaces.
- zoobab 3y ago
intellectronica 3y ago
I don't understand ... why don't they quit and go work for a company that doesn't contract with the Israeli government?
- pc86 3y ago
  Because then they'd have to give up their stock grants, and most sane people aren't going to hire someone with a history of protesting their employer.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- close04 3y ago
  It depends. If everyone leaves whenever there's a problem, then problems will never get fixed. Or if Google is a good employer except for this, leaving over this one thing instead of trying to fix it is like leaving a house instead of fixing that broken window.
  - crabbone 3y ago
    Except... the problem is: this is not a problem that needs fixing. If Google was doing something illegal, then the employees would have every moral (and legal) right to protest and demand a change of policy. Google has protocols for appeals and complaints that employees can use. Even if those are just for show, the right course of action would be to use the advertised protocols, then, if they don't work, the employees would have a legitimate claim against the company. It's labor-intensive, time-consuming and expensive to follow such protocols. And, I can "understand" the protesters in the sense that I would, too, be discouraged by the prospects of doing things the right way... But, realistically... all these protests are going to accomplish is the workplace ethics violation on the part of the protesters, and, probably a boot. ---- As an aside: for someone living the events it feels surreal that people who are completely out of touch with the reality of the events become so enthused about the subject. Often times it's actually nice / conscientious people who get trapped by the most brazen lies about political / humanitarian issues far, far away...
pc86 3y ago
[flagged]
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 And lots more discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40060532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40060532
- hobbescotch 3y ago
  Wonder why the second discussion was flagged
  - alephknoll 3y ago
    For the same reason this post was flagged. Israel. Did you really have to ask? Hard to imagine google workers protesting russia, china or saudi arabia being flagged.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
oldpersonintx 3y ago
[dead]
nerdjon 3y ago
I really feel like, regardless of where you fall on the particular war, we really should not like the idea of supplying resources like this to an active war. It also concerns me that given the nature of this war, that the idea of protesting this is not ok.
- Niten 3y ago
  Is this a principle you apply universally? For example, do you oppose U.S. companies providing technical support for Ukraine's justified war aims, such as Starlink? I've seen no indication that simply protesting is seen as "not ok". But trespassing on private property, or worse blocking bridges, goes quite beyond "protest" and freedom of speech.
  - salawat 3y ago
    It's called civil disobedience, and you opt into the inconvenience when your government acts truly in a truly odious manner to the sensibilities of the governed.
    - crabbone 3y ago
      Google isn't really a government... so, civil disobedience doesn't really work here. Google, as well as any other employer is required by many different regulations to both comply with government rulings and to give certain means for its employees to appeal / protest whatever the company is doing. Staging a protest inside CEO office isn't a legal way to protest. It makes sense to protest in such way against an overstepping government because there's no other means to call upon the government to change its course (similar to how there's no way to deal with ethics violations of the supreme court, since there's no court that can judge them). When it comes to a company, things are different because there's a higher power that regulates what companies can do. The protesters come across as annoying and arrogant for wanting to cut corners in the process of appealing their company decisions and for putting themselves on display rather than trying to use the proper channels and working towards the benefit of those affected / involved. It's kind of like as if I had a dispute with my landlord over who has to fix the plumbing, and instead of reporting them to the proper authority, I'd block traffic on a busy highway demanding "justice" for the broken plumbing.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

83 points by zoobab 3y ago

j0hngalt 3y ago

[dead]

GiorgioG 3y ago

Google workers need to be reminded they work for a company who's mission is to make investors money.

solarpunk 3y ago
Some still remember their old motto, I suppose.
- GiorgioG 3y ago
  I somehow doubt these googlers are old enough to have even heard of that motto.
  - passwordoops 3y ago
    Take over the world?
- Bluecobra 3y ago
  Move fast and discontinue things?
  - solardev 3y ago
    Beat Altavista at any cost?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mmkos 3y ago
And I guess tech companies need to be reminded that human lives are more valuable than investors money.
klyrs 3y ago
Companies need to be reminded that employees are people with thoughts and feelings and rights.
- GiorgioG 3y ago
  Not in this employment market.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    We are not slaves. We are not robots. Your philosophy is for bootlickers. That might get you places, but I've got my dignity.
    - GiorgioG 3y ago
      Unless/until you have fuck-you-money, you're a slave too.
      - klyrs 3y ago
        Crab bucket mentality, right there.
        GiorgioG 3y ago
        Not at all - but the fact is and will always be that most people will not have fuck-you money and those people will always be at the 'mercy' of their employers to a point. My employer would have to cross a serious line for me to think about leaving on moral grounds. It's a business, as long as they're selling their wares legally, more power to them if they can make more money.
mrweasel 3y ago
It's also interesting that this is where they draw the line for some reason. While I agree that the entire situation in Gaza is a catastrophe, some people seem to react "violently" (Not with violence, they just have a lot of feeling tied up in the conflict). I know of companies where people got professional help and had to take time off work due to the war, but most of them don't know anyone in the area, nor are they themselves neither Jewish nor Palestinian. Anyway, I think it's weird that Google employees will react like this over the sale of a service. In it self GCP is pretty harmless and its sold to a democratic government. It's also the Israel government, not just the IDF, so most of the services would presumably be used for peaceful purposes. At the same time these employees are apparently completely fine with Googles invasion of peoples privacy, manipulation, sale of data to shady advertisers with little oversight, collaboration with the US military, collaboration with China and a number of other issues... But no, this is apparently where Google crosses the line. If Google employees where constantly applying internal pressure to management and shareholders to do better it would make more sense, but right now it seems pretty random.

pbiggar 3y ago

Here's a twitter thread that documents the protest directly from the protestors, culminating in their arrest: https://twitter.com/NoTechApartheid/status/1780422217878081790 https://twitter.com/NoTechApartheid/status/17804222178780817...

lolinder 3y ago

I suspect this was posted under such a weird link to get around the dupe checker for the actual source: Google Workers Protest Cloud Contract with Israel's Government 16 hours ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 I further suspect that that story didn't get very much attention in the last submission because there isn't much of a story here: > Just over a dozen people gathered outside Google’s offices in New York and Sunnyvale on Tuesday. Among those in New York was Google cloud software engineer Eddie Hatfield, who was fired days after disrupting Google Israel’s managing director at March’s Mind The Tech, a company-sponsored conference focused on the Israeli tech industry, in early March.

pc86 3y ago
The most interesting thing about this is that someone who was recently fired was able to get into the Google Cloud CEO's office. I've been in much lower-profile buildings where security checked everyone in in the lobby and even with an escort you wouldn't be able to just go into the CEO's office.
- bitvoid 3y ago
  It said that he was one of the protestors that gathered outside the offices. It said that there are groups protesting outside and inside the offices. I imagine the latter group are all current employees.
- eitally 3y ago
  The Google Cloud CEO's office is in SVL, not NYC (just fyi), so he wasn't there. Additionally, in Google's SVL offices, you can't operate the elevators without a badge (or even get into the elevator lobby without first badging in [or being escorted]. That said, unlike in a lot of companies, the executive office area (for Cloud) is not separated in any way from the offices in the rest of the building. This is not exactly the same as for Alphabet execs (dating back to when Larry & Sergey were running things), with separate private parking, private elevator and partly inaccessible office spaces.
zoobab 3y ago

intellectronica 3y ago

I don't understand ... why don't they quit and go work for a company that doesn't contract with the Israeli government?

pc86 3y ago
Because then they'd have to give up their stock grants, and most sane people aren't going to hire someone with a history of protesting their employer.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
close04 3y ago
It depends. If everyone leaves whenever there's a problem, then problems will never get fixed. Or if Google is a good employer except for this, leaving over this one thing instead of trying to fix it is like leaving a house instead of fixing that broken window.
- crabbone 3y ago
  Except... the problem is: this is not a problem that needs fixing. If Google was doing something illegal, then the employees would have every moral (and legal) right to protest and demand a change of policy. Google has protocols for appeals and complaints that employees can use. Even if those are just for show, the right course of action would be to use the advertised protocols, then, if they don't work, the employees would have a legitimate claim against the company. It's labor-intensive, time-consuming and expensive to follow such protocols. And, I can "understand" the protesters in the sense that I would, too, be discouraged by the prospects of doing things the right way... But, realistically... all these protests are going to accomplish is the workplace ethics violation on the part of the protesters, and, probably a boot. ---- As an aside: for someone living the events it feels surreal that people who are completely out of touch with the reality of the events become so enthused about the subject. Often times it's actually nice / conscientious people who get trapped by the most brazen lies about political / humanitarian issues far, far away...

pc86 3y ago

[flagged]

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40056994 And lots more discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40060532 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40060532

hobbescotch 3y ago
Wonder why the second discussion was flagged
- alephknoll 3y ago
  For the same reason this post was flagged. Israel. Did you really have to ask? Hard to imagine google workers protesting russia, china or saudi arabia being flagged.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

oldpersonintx 3y ago

[dead]

nerdjon 3y ago

I really feel like, regardless of where you fall on the particular war, we really should not like the idea of supplying resources like this to an active war. It also concerns me that given the nature of this war, that the idea of protesting this is not ok.

Niten 3y ago
Is this a principle you apply universally? For example, do you oppose U.S. companies providing technical support for Ukraine's justified war aims, such as Starlink? I've seen no indication that simply protesting is seen as "not ok". But trespassing on private property, or worse blocking bridges, goes quite beyond "protest" and freedom of speech.
- salawat 3y ago
  It's called civil disobedience, and you opt into the inconvenience when your government acts truly in a truly odious manner to the sensibilities of the governed.
  - crabbone 3y ago
    Google isn't really a government... so, civil disobedience doesn't really work here. Google, as well as any other employer is required by many different regulations to both comply with government rulings and to give certain means for its employees to appeal / protest whatever the company is doing. Staging a protest inside CEO office isn't a legal way to protest. It makes sense to protest in such way against an overstepping government because there's no other means to call upon the government to change its course (similar to how there's no way to deal with ethics violations of the supreme court, since there's no court that can judge them). When it comes to a company, things are different because there's a higher power that regulates what companies can do. The protesters come across as annoying and arrogant for wanting to cut corners in the process of appealing their company decisions and for putting themselves on display rather than trying to use the proper channels and working towards the benefit of those affected / involved. It's kind of like as if I had a dispute with my landlord over who has to fix the plumbing, and instead of reporting them to the proper authority, I'd block traffic on a busy highway demanding "justice" for the broken plumbing.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]