3 ms·

The tax question I've always had is around conferences. If I attend a work-related conference in California, I'm being paid to be there and so that's California

The tax question I've always had is around conferences. If I attend a work-related conference in California, I'm being paid to be there and so that's California sourced income and I have to file taxes, right? During the pandemic when everybody was working from home, I thought about renting some place with more interesting scenery for a few weeks. I mentioned it to my bosses and was given a very short list of places where I could do so without triggering tax issues for myself or the company (later in the pandemic more options opened up). When I looked into it, it seems like lots of states are pretty strict about tax requirements for people working remotely from their state.

bombcar 3y ago
Most of this strictness comes from taxing baseball player’s income for the games they play in state.
sseagull 3y ago
Technically you might owe taxes, depending on the jurisdiction, but of course most people ignore it. It does hit professional athletes, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax
nickjj 3y ago
> If I attend a work-related conference in California, I'm being paid to be there and so that's California sourced income and I have to file taxes, right? I'm not an accountant but I have read that baseball players pay state taxes based on where they play, such as away games in a different state. I'm not sure if it applies to tech in the same way, it sounds like it would be a nightmare to file, especially if your company has trips where most of the company might be operating in a different state for a few days or a week. For example[0]: > Professional athletes' taxes are also much more complicated than the average taxpayer. In the U.S., people must pay taxes based both on where they live and where they work. That means when the New York Mets play the Dodgers in Los Angeles, Mets players can be taxed for the days they played in California. [0]: https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/sports/2023/12/15/ohtani-contract-dodgers-avoiding-california-taxes https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/sports/2023/12/15/ohtan...
- criddell 3y ago
  I don’t think any of that is limited to professional athletes though. If you are on vacation in another state and somebody from work calls you for the password for some machine, you are now working and need to file taxes in that state (if the state has no grace period, and some do).
- bunabhucan 3y ago
  What I heard from an accountant is professional athletes income is the only thing worth pusuing on this front: the taxes are high, the work being taxed (games) are televised so there's no denying the location etc. Jane IT, working at remote client site for a day is exactly the same but enforcing it would cost too much.
fred_is_fred 3y ago
I briefly worked for a very large consulting company after an acquisition. As a part of the acquisition we were flown to a large city for 3 days of meetings. My next pay stub showed hours for my home state, hours for the state where we had meetings and a remittance for city income tax also. I left right after, but I still had to file: Federal State (mine) State (meeting state for 2 days) City (meeting city for 2 days) No other company has ever done that to me, I assume it provided some benefit to my company to do it that way.
barryrandall 3y ago
That's one of the reasons why Mexico and Canada are so popular for company meetings.
- brewdad 3y ago
  Wouldn't that open you up to both similar tax implications AND potential visa issues? You can't enter Canada on as a tourist and then do work. Obviously the chances of getting caught are extremely slim but the consequences could be significant.
  - criddell 3y ago
    I don't know about Mexico, but Canada's rules seem pretty chill: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/business/visitors-events-conferences.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se... You need a passport and can't stay for more than 6 months.
    - nucleardog 3y ago
      I think that’s more or less NAFTA (or whatever the rebranding was), that’s essentially the same terms Canadians can enter the US under. As well, between Canada and the US you’re covered under the visa waiver program, so you don’t even need to apply or anything. Just show up at the border. It’s a fairly well known gotcha up here (at least among my circles). If you’re going to the US for meetings or conferences you are _only_ going for meetings and conferences. You will not be working at your hotel in the evening. You’ve set your auto responder and will not be responding to work emails. Generally it’s fine, but sometimes you get the CBP guy that wants to ruin someone’s day or is a stickler for the rules and you’re told to apply for a full work visa and sent back home.
lasereyes136 3y ago
Ask a tax lawyer. My understanding, which is not legal or tax advice, is that, as a private person, you pay taxes in the state you have your primary residence in. There are a lot of rules around what it means to have a primary residence, so you need to check those.
- jalapenos 3y ago
  Not that simple. Tax is levied based on source and residence. Employment income is "sourced" where it's exercised (where your body is as you're clicking that mouse and changing the coloured rectangles on your screen). This is also unqualified non-advice.
toast0 3y ago
Yes, work days while you're present in California are California source income. The California Franchise Tax Board has suggestions for how to apportion your employment compensation if it's not clearly obvious from hours etc. I had thought there was a de minimis rule, so you need not report for a small number of days and a small income, but formalization of that policy was only proposed, not passed.
dpifke 3y ago
Yes, if you are physically working even one day in California in a given year, the Franchise Tax Board expects you to file a non-resident tax return. (How enforceable this is will depend on your other ties to the state and your personal risk tolerance.) At one point, California and New York were unique in this, but I believe the practice has spread to other states, especially as a result of remote work becoming more widespread. The relevant case (from 1989) is https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1772838.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1772838.... Edit to add: as someone who moved out of California 10 years ago, I've been advised by a professional to basically continue filing a non-resident return forever. If I file a return that says 0 days in state and $0 owed, the FTB has a statutory time limit to contest that assertion. If I don't file anything, they claim they have an indefinite lookback period.

bombcar 3y ago

Most of this strictness comes from taxing baseball player’s income for the games they play in state.

sseagull 3y ago

Technically you might owe taxes, depending on the jurisdiction, but of course most people ignore it. It does hit professional athletes, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_tax

nickjj 3y ago

> If I attend a work-related conference in California, I'm being paid to be there and so that's California sourced income and I have to file taxes, right? I'm not an accountant but I have read that baseball players pay state taxes based on where they play, such as away games in a different state. I'm not sure if it applies to tech in the same way, it sounds like it would be a nightmare to file, especially if your company has trips where most of the company might be operating in a different state for a few days or a week. For example[0]: > Professional athletes' taxes are also much more complicated than the average taxpayer. In the U.S., people must pay taxes based both on where they live and where they work. That means when the New York Mets play the Dodgers in Los Angeles, Mets players can be taxed for the days they played in California. [0]: https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/sports/2023/12/15/ohtani-contract-dodgers-avoiding-california-taxes https://spectrumnews1.com/ca/la-west/sports/2023/12/15/ohtan...

criddell 3y ago
I don’t think any of that is limited to professional athletes though. If you are on vacation in another state and somebody from work calls you for the password for some machine, you are now working and need to file taxes in that state (if the state has no grace period, and some do).
bunabhucan 3y ago
What I heard from an accountant is professional athletes income is the only thing worth pusuing on this front: the taxes are high, the work being taxed (games) are televised so there's no denying the location etc. Jane IT, working at remote client site for a day is exactly the same but enforcing it would cost too much.

fred_is_fred 3y ago

I briefly worked for a very large consulting company after an acquisition. As a part of the acquisition we were flown to a large city for 3 days of meetings. My next pay stub showed hours for my home state, hours for the state where we had meetings and a remittance for city income tax also. I left right after, but I still had to file: Federal State (mine) State (meeting state for 2 days) City (meeting city for 2 days) No other company has ever done that to me, I assume it provided some benefit to my company to do it that way.

barryrandall 3y ago

That's one of the reasons why Mexico and Canada are so popular for company meetings.

brewdad 3y ago
Wouldn't that open you up to both similar tax implications AND potential visa issues? You can't enter Canada on as a tourist and then do work. Obviously the chances of getting caught are extremely slim but the consequences could be significant.
- criddell 3y ago
  I don't know about Mexico, but Canada's rules seem pretty chill: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/visit-canada/business/visitors-events-conferences.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se... You need a passport and can't stay for more than 6 months.
  - nucleardog 3y ago
    I think that’s more or less NAFTA (or whatever the rebranding was), that’s essentially the same terms Canadians can enter the US under. As well, between Canada and the US you’re covered under the visa waiver program, so you don’t even need to apply or anything. Just show up at the border. It’s a fairly well known gotcha up here (at least among my circles). If you’re going to the US for meetings or conferences you are _only_ going for meetings and conferences. You will not be working at your hotel in the evening. You’ve set your auto responder and will not be responding to work emails. Generally it’s fine, but sometimes you get the CBP guy that wants to ruin someone’s day or is a stickler for the rules and you’re told to apply for a full work visa and sent back home.

lasereyes136 3y ago

Ask a tax lawyer. My understanding, which is not legal or tax advice, is that, as a private person, you pay taxes in the state you have your primary residence in. There are a lot of rules around what it means to have a primary residence, so you need to check those.

jalapenos 3y ago
Not that simple. Tax is levied based on source and residence. Employment income is "sourced" where it's exercised (where your body is as you're clicking that mouse and changing the coloured rectangles on your screen). This is also unqualified non-advice.

toast0 3y ago

Yes, work days while you're present in California are California source income. The California Franchise Tax Board has suggestions for how to apportion your employment compensation if it's not clearly obvious from hours etc. I had thought there was a de minimis rule, so you need not report for a small number of days and a small income, but formalization of that policy was only proposed, not passed.

dpifke 3y ago

Yes, if you are physically working even one day in California in a given year, the Franchise Tax Board expects you to file a non-resident tax return. (How enforceable this is will depend on your other ties to the state and your personal risk tolerance.) At one point, California and New York were unique in this, but I believe the practice has spread to other states, especially as a result of remote work becoming more widespread. The relevant case (from 1989) is https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1772838.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ca-court-of-appeal/1772838.... Edit to add: as someone who moved out of California 10 years ago, I've been advised by a professional to basically continue filing a non-resident return forever. If I file a return that says 0 days in state and $0 owed, the FTB has a statutory time limit to contest that assertion. If I don't file anything, they claim they have an indefinite lookback period.