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Tesla will ask shareholders to reinstate voided $56B stock grant for Musk

17 points by koolba 3y ago

koolba 3y ago
Musk himself has about 23% of the shares of TSLA[1]. His brother has another 1%. Vanguard (the fund company) holds about 7.2%. BlackRock has about 5.9%. State Street's funds have another 3.4%. Assuming the fund's go with the company's recommendation (i.e. vote "yes" to both proposals). That's already 40.5% of the vote. So he would only need 15% of the remaining direct holders ((50 - 40.5) / (100 - 40.5)) to vote yes. [1]: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/052616/top-4-tesla-shareholders-tsla.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/052616/top-4-...
- jprd 3y ago
  TSLA has lost over 30% of stock price YTD. They just laid off 10% of the workforce. Now they are asking shareholders to reinstate a $56B grant for the CEO overseeing that performance? I wish I had a reality distortion field too, I guess.
  - koolba 3y ago
    > TSLA has lost over 30% of stock price YTD. The stock is up 900+% since the original 2018 deal. That's even after the recent pull back. There's plenty of argument to be made for and against this deal, but that's growth is an important piece of the puzzle.
    - Zigurd 3y ago
      That depends on whether the reality distortion field can still mask the fact that Tesla is still the highest valued car maker. Absurdly, valued about 50% higher than Toyota, and equally absurdly 7 times BMW, which sells 30% more cars. TSLA has a lot of room to decline and still be generously valued.
      - koolba 3y ago
        Tesla being the highest valued car maker is not some kind of startup options math voodoo though. It's traded on the open market and the market as a whole has agreed on that pricing.
        Zigurd 3y ago
        The market is capable of being fooled until it isn't. Several EV companies were priced, on the market, by supposedly clear-eyed fund managers, at absurd prices, until they weren't.
        chipdart 3y ago
        > It's traded on the open market and the market as a whole has agreed on that pricing. How do you explain the high volume of short selling?
      - FireBeyond 3y ago
        > absurdly, valued about 50% higher than Toyota, and equally absurdly 7 times BMW, which sells 30% more cars. TSLA has a lot of room to decline and still be generously valued. Tesla has at times been valued at a number higher than Toyota, Volkwagen Group, Hyundai/Kia, General Motors, Ford, Nissan, Honda, Fiat Chrysler, Renault, Suzuki, Daimler, BMW, Mazda and Mitsubishi. COMBINED. But wait, there's more, also worth more than all of these AND several Chinese manufacturers: SAID, Geely, Changan, Dongfeng. The insanity is that this seemed reasonable to a non-negligible portion of the population.
      - mgiannopoulos 3y ago
        Beyond number of cars sold , can you check on profits and debts?
  - browningstreet 3y ago
    The article reprices what he’d get since the stock is down from the $56B level. It’s not $56B.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mgiannopoulos 3y ago
  Musk recused himself from the vote in 2018
mgiannopoulos 3y ago
“Although Tesla's stock price has fallen about 37 percent this year, it is up more than 630 percent since the March 2018 shareholder vote.” - Sounds like he deserves some compensation
- Ekaros 3y ago
  Like the value of his stock holdings during that time?
  - mgiannopoulos 3y ago
    Shareholders get value by investing their money and holding the stock. They do not offer their work to the company. Do you see any other shareholders at Tesla offer work for free? Do you own stocks at any company? If yes, do you go at their offices and work for them?
bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
From a business point of view the problem is that you're rewarding your managers for the price of the stock. If managers get rewarded for the price of stock, guess what they'll be spending their time on? Now if you're a free market fundamentalist, you probably believe that increasing stock price is the same as increasing business value. After all, the free market is always right. The rest of us know that the two things aren't the same, and that there are easier ways to push stock price than building value. So obviously that's what he spends his time doing. The quote comes to mind: when a measurement becomes a target, it ceases to be a useful measurement, at least in the sense that it's not measuring the same thing as before it became a target.
- mgiannopoulos 3y ago
  The package includes other performance indicators such as revenues and profit. It’s not just the stock value. Tesla hit the targets, it’s a profitable company with very little debt.

17 points by koolba 3y ago

Musk himself has about 23% of the shares of TSLA[1]. His brother has another 1%. Vanguard (the fund company) holds about 7.2%. BlackRock has about 5.9%. State Street's funds have another 3.4%. Assuming the fund's go with the company's recommendation (i.e. vote "yes" to both proposals). That's already 40.5% of the vote. So he would only need 15% of the remaining direct holders ((50 - 40.5) / (100 - 40.5)) to vote yes. [1]: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/052616/top-4-tesla-shareholders-tsla.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/insights/052616/top-4-...

jprd 3y ago
TSLA has lost over 30% of stock price YTD. They just laid off 10% of the workforce. Now they are asking shareholders to reinstate a $56B grant for the CEO overseeing that performance? I wish I had a reality distortion field too, I guess.
- koolba 3y ago
  > TSLA has lost over 30% of stock price YTD. The stock is up 900+% since the original 2018 deal. That's even after the recent pull back. There's plenty of argument to be made for and against this deal, but that's growth is an important piece of the puzzle.
  - Zigurd 3y ago
    That depends on whether the reality distortion field can still mask the fact that Tesla is still the highest valued car maker. Absurdly, valued about 50% higher than Toyota, and equally absurdly 7 times BMW, which sells 30% more cars. TSLA has a lot of room to decline and still be generously valued.
    - koolba 3y ago
      Tesla being the highest valued car maker is not some kind of startup options math voodoo though. It's traded on the open market and the market as a whole has agreed on that pricing.
      - Zigurd 3y ago
        The market is capable of being fooled until it isn't. Several EV companies were priced, on the market, by supposedly clear-eyed fund managers, at absurd prices, until they weren't.
      - chipdart 3y ago
        > It's traded on the open market and the market as a whole has agreed on that pricing. How do you explain the high volume of short selling?
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      > absurdly, valued about 50% higher than Toyota, and equally absurdly 7 times BMW, which sells 30% more cars. TSLA has a lot of room to decline and still be generously valued. Tesla has at times been valued at a number higher than Toyota, Volkwagen Group, Hyundai/Kia, General Motors, Ford, Nissan, Honda, Fiat Chrysler, Renault, Suzuki, Daimler, BMW, Mazda and Mitsubishi. COMBINED. But wait, there's more, also worth more than all of these AND several Chinese manufacturers: SAID, Geely, Changan, Dongfeng. The insanity is that this seemed reasonable to a non-negligible portion of the population.
    - mgiannopoulos 3y ago
      Beyond number of cars sold , can you check on profits and debts?
- browningstreet 3y ago
  The article reprices what he’d get since the stock is down from the $56B level. It’s not $56B.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mgiannopoulos 3y ago
Musk recused himself from the vote in 2018

mgiannopoulos 3y ago

“Although Tesla's stock price has fallen about 37 percent this year, it is up more than 630 percent since the March 2018 shareholder vote.” - Sounds like he deserves some compensation

Ekaros 3y ago
Like the value of his stock holdings during that time?
- mgiannopoulos 3y ago
  Shareholders get value by investing their money and holding the stock. They do not offer their work to the company. Do you see any other shareholders at Tesla offer work for free? Do you own stocks at any company? If yes, do you go at their offices and work for them?

bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago

From a business point of view the problem is that you're rewarding your managers for the price of the stock. If managers get rewarded for the price of stock, guess what they'll be spending their time on? Now if you're a free market fundamentalist, you probably believe that increasing stock price is the same as increasing business value. After all, the free market is always right. The rest of us know that the two things aren't the same, and that there are easier ways to push stock price than building value. So obviously that's what he spends his time doing. The quote comes to mind: when a measurement becomes a target, it ceases to be a useful measurement, at least in the sense that it's not measuring the same thing as before it became a target.

mgiannopoulos 3y ago
The package includes other performance indicators such as revenues and profit. It’s not just the stock value. Tesla hit the targets, it’s a profitable company with very little debt.