3 ms·

Is this claim backed up by evidence at all? There are a few countries that have decriminalized / legalized app drugs including heroin, and I don't believe there

Is this claim backed up by evidence at all? There are a few countries that have decriminalized / legalized app drugs including heroin, and I don't believe there's been the effect you described. Lots of people get hooked on illegal opiates like heroin because they start out prescribed legal painkillers, but the prescription runs out and they are forced to look elsewhere for relief. Pills are pricey, but horse is cheap. Happened to a friend of mine, so cheap legal opiates might actually deter much H usage. Additionally because it's an illegal trade, lots of heroin deaths are actually fentanyl deaths (rip Prince). This definitely wouldn't happen if real heroin was cheap and available and sold in proportioned packages like alcohol. As to cost, you can easily spend $100 for a night of drinking or more. Cost is not a deterrent for many when it comes to alcohol.

peoplefromibiza 3y ago
> decriminalized / legalized app drugs including heroin let's put this in numbers - Each year in Europe, every person aged 15 and over consumes, on average, 9.5 litres of pure alcohol, which is equivalent to around 190 litres of beer, 80 litres of wine or 24 litres of spirits. - In 2019, 8.4 per cent of the EU adult population (15 years or older) consumed alcohol every day, 28.8 per cent drank weekly, and 22.8 per cent monthly, while 26.2 per said they never consumed alcoholic drinks or hadn’t consumed any in the last 12 months - Between EU countries, there are large differences in estimated alcohol consumption, but one trend remains prevalent: men drink more than women: 13.0 per cent of men vs. 4.1 per cent of women drink alcohol every day; 36.4 per cent of men vs. 21.7 per cent of women drink every week. Translate that into heroine or cocaine consumption and only after that we can compare the results. Even though in some countries drugs have been decriminalized or legalized, the social stigma attached to various substances is still enormously different. But is alcohol more dangerous than marijuana? Yes. > they start out prescribed legal painkillers Yes, correct. That's why those substances are vastly more dangerous than alcohol and you need a medical prescription to buy them from an authorized dealer who needs to be a Doctor of Pharmacy who also had to pass an exam before applying for the license. There's a reason why selling alcohol is much easier. You can't get hooked on alcohol by drinking it milligrams at time, like opioids. > As to cost, you can easily spend $100 for a night of drinking or more In a bar or a restaurant, with friends or your partner. You're not paying for the alcohol, you're paying for the service. Beer is ~1.5 euros for a 66cl a bottle in Italy at the local supermarket. You can find Vodka for 5-7 euros. People will think you're having a party, now try asking for cocaine or heroine... If you were buying the substance on the streets at the black market, it would cost you pennies. It would be so cheap that the dealer would actually make no money. It's about easy of access and social acceptance.
- schwartzworld 3y ago
  > Translate that into heroine or cocaine consumption and only after that we can compare the results. Is that even possible under prohibition? So much of how substances are used is cultural. If cocaine was truly legal, maybe they would sell it in doses that were equivalent to a cup of coffee. > There's a reason why selling alcohol is much easier. Because it's so culturally ingrained? Because it's too easy to make to really illegalize it? Because it's a huge money maker, which is more important than societal good? > You can't get hooked on alcohol by drinking it milligrams at time, like opioids. Not miligrams of liquid, but you're counting the filler. > If you were buying the substance on the streets at the black market, it would cost you pennies. There was alcohol prohibition in america. This did not turn out to be the case. You're arguing based on gut, not science or history. The fact is, there's no evidence that legalizing drugs leads to reefer madness or cocaine madness or whatever. Would more people try coke if it was legal? Maybe. Maybe some people try it now because it's illegal and that adds to the sex appeal.
  - peoplefromibiza 3y ago
    > Is that even possible under prohibition? You forget about research. We already tried that, in a lab, under strict supervision and we concluded that: heroine is much worse for your health than alcohol. > If cocaine was truly legal you forget that cocaine was legal. there's a reason why it isn't anymore. we know its effects. > Because it's so culturally ingrained? it's not. we have rediscovered alcohol many times throughout history, animals get drunk too. it's more than culture. You're making it sound like we've just invented alcohol and we don't know what makes it different from cocaine or opioids... > to really illegalize it? Yeah, ask China what happened when the the west flooded their country with opium.. Why do you think they are called "Opium Wars"? Also remember: not all drugs are equal. As I've said: marijuana? of course we should legalize it, it's not worse than alcohol in any way, I would actually say it's much safer. I'm also in favour of decriminalization and damage control, but heroine is absolutely much more dangerous than alcohol. end of story. > Not miligrams of liquid, but you're counting the filler. I don't know if you're being serious or not, but there are actually around 14 GRAMS of alcohol in a glass of wine. It takes 1,400 vicodin pills to make 14 grams of hydrocodone, assuming you're taking the highest dosage pills (10mg). It's a lethal dose. OTOH if you drink 5 glasses of wine you will most probably survive to tell your incredible story about what millions of people in many countries do every saturday night. And the next saturday you're not hooked and need to increase the dosage to keep experiencing the same effects for the same amount of time. It won't wear off exponentially faster with exponentially worse side effects. > This did not turn out to be the case. because alcohol was the only drug in town back then. if you were a drug dealer now, would you prefer to make a few bucks by selling liters of illegal alcohol or thousands by selling opioids? which one is easier to transport and hide, and also provides the best ROI by weight and volume?

peoplefromibiza 3y ago

> decriminalized / legalized app drugs including heroin let's put this in numbers - Each year in Europe, every person aged 15 and over consumes, on average, 9.5 litres of pure alcohol, which is equivalent to around 190 litres of beer, 80 litres of wine or 24 litres of spirits. - In 2019, 8.4 per cent of the EU adult population (15 years or older) consumed alcohol every day, 28.8 per cent drank weekly, and 22.8 per cent monthly, while 26.2 per said they never consumed alcoholic drinks or hadn’t consumed any in the last 12 months - Between EU countries, there are large differences in estimated alcohol consumption, but one trend remains prevalent: men drink more than women: 13.0 per cent of men vs. 4.1 per cent of women drink alcohol every day; 36.4 per cent of men vs. 21.7 per cent of women drink every week. Translate that into heroine or cocaine consumption and only after that we can compare the results. Even though in some countries drugs have been decriminalized or legalized, the social stigma attached to various substances is still enormously different. But is alcohol more dangerous than marijuana? Yes. > they start out prescribed legal painkillers Yes, correct. That's why those substances are vastly more dangerous than alcohol and you need a medical prescription to buy them from an authorized dealer who needs to be a Doctor of Pharmacy who also had to pass an exam before applying for the license. There's a reason why selling alcohol is much easier. You can't get hooked on alcohol by drinking it milligrams at time, like opioids. > As to cost, you can easily spend $100 for a night of drinking or more In a bar or a restaurant, with friends or your partner. You're not paying for the alcohol, you're paying for the service. Beer is ~1.5 euros for a 66cl a bottle in Italy at the local supermarket. You can find Vodka for 5-7 euros. People will think you're having a party, now try asking for cocaine or heroine... If you were buying the substance on the streets at the black market, it would cost you pennies. It would be so cheap that the dealer would actually make no money. It's about easy of access and social acceptance.

schwartzworld 3y ago
> Translate that into heroine or cocaine consumption and only after that we can compare the results. Is that even possible under prohibition? So much of how substances are used is cultural. If cocaine was truly legal, maybe they would sell it in doses that were equivalent to a cup of coffee. > There's a reason why selling alcohol is much easier. Because it's so culturally ingrained? Because it's too easy to make to really illegalize it? Because it's a huge money maker, which is more important than societal good? > You can't get hooked on alcohol by drinking it milligrams at time, like opioids. Not miligrams of liquid, but you're counting the filler. > If you were buying the substance on the streets at the black market, it would cost you pennies. There was alcohol prohibition in america. This did not turn out to be the case. You're arguing based on gut, not science or history. The fact is, there's no evidence that legalizing drugs leads to reefer madness or cocaine madness or whatever. Would more people try coke if it was legal? Maybe. Maybe some people try it now because it's illegal and that adds to the sex appeal.
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
  > Is that even possible under prohibition? You forget about research. We already tried that, in a lab, under strict supervision and we concluded that: heroine is much worse for your health than alcohol. > If cocaine was truly legal you forget that cocaine was legal. there's a reason why it isn't anymore. we know its effects. > Because it's so culturally ingrained? it's not. we have rediscovered alcohol many times throughout history, animals get drunk too. it's more than culture. You're making it sound like we've just invented alcohol and we don't know what makes it different from cocaine or opioids... > to really illegalize it? Yeah, ask China what happened when the the west flooded their country with opium.. Why do you think they are called "Opium Wars"? Also remember: not all drugs are equal. As I've said: marijuana? of course we should legalize it, it's not worse than alcohol in any way, I would actually say it's much safer. I'm also in favour of decriminalization and damage control, but heroine is absolutely much more dangerous than alcohol. end of story. > Not miligrams of liquid, but you're counting the filler. I don't know if you're being serious or not, but there are actually around 14 GRAMS of alcohol in a glass of wine. It takes 1,400 vicodin pills to make 14 grams of hydrocodone, assuming you're taking the highest dosage pills (10mg). It's a lethal dose. OTOH if you drink 5 glasses of wine you will most probably survive to tell your incredible story about what millions of people in many countries do every saturday night. And the next saturday you're not hooked and need to increase the dosage to keep experiencing the same effects for the same amount of time. It won't wear off exponentially faster with exponentially worse side effects. > This did not turn out to be the case. because alcohol was the only drug in town back then. if you were a drug dealer now, would you prefer to make a few bucks by selling liters of illegal alcohol or thousands by selling opioids? which one is easier to transport and hide, and also provides the best ROI by weight and volume?