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Do you not have any memories from <3? This is obviously false. I have memories from when I was 2 that my parents also remember.

lelanthran 3y ago
> I have memories from when I was 2 that my parents also remember. I doubt it. How can you tell the difference between real memories and implanted memories[1]? Children as old as 11 have been successfully implanted with memories of things that never occurred by their parents, and who later testified that their parents told them nothing! [1] Your parents told you at age 4 what you did at age 2, you remembered the act because it was told to you, you don't remember the act of them telling you.
- gnyman 3y ago
  No need to question the previous comments experiences. Is there really anything which is "certain" when it comes to memories? I'm not a memory expert, but as I recently read a book on the subject I think I have better than average understanding of it. If you can read Swedish or Finnish I do recommend it, the title is "Minnets Makt" by Julia Korkman (freely translated "The power of memory", official title is "Memory Dependent")[1]. The book taught me a lot about how memories work, how they are formed, recalled and modified during the years. And as memories are a core part of everyone's life, I think it would be good for more people to understand them better. I did find a youtube video where the author, does a short lecture meant for law enforcement to teach them the basics of how memories work. As for them it is even more important to understand how meories, especially the recall of memories work when they interview people. Disclaimer, I haven't watched it yet, only skimmed it but it does seem to cover the same concepts as in the book. I recommend spending 27 minutes watching it for anyone who's curious about how the memory work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSyEs6feH0M&t=442s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSyEs6feH0M&t=442s [1] https://www.helsinkiagency.fi/memory-dependent/ https://www.helsinkiagency.fi/memory-dependent/
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > How can you tell the difference between real memories and implanted memories[1]? Let's say something emotionally significant happened to you at the age of 2. Because it was significant, you keep recalling it regularly, maybe every week or so. Recalling and thinking about the memory is also strengthening it (and often altering it). There's not enough time to forget it if you keep refreshing the memory of it (kinda like LRU cache). I have a couple of such early memories which I believe survived through this recall mechanism.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > Because it was significant, you keep recalling it regularly, maybe every week or so. That's not how two year olds work. Even something as significant as losing a (or both) parents is still not significant enough to be recalled periodically, and we have many cases of that to support the hypothesis that "that's not how two year old brains work". > I have a couple of such early memories which I believe survived through this recall mechanism. I'm still skeptical. The first reason is that two year olds don't understand the concept of age in years (or age at all, TBH - they recognoise larger people and smaller poeple, but hafve no conept of age). The second reason is that the odds are very much against your hypothesis. I have maybe ... two memories which I think were from age 2, but before age 3. But I cannot determine if I was three or four at the time, instead of two. I cannot determine if they were real or a dream (because they are memories of an event of such non-significance[1] that no one else remembered). I also cannot determine if they were not real and not a dream! I cannot tell if I "remember" them purely because when I was older my mum used to talk about the place they lived in when I was born, and with all the details, 6yo me simply interleaved actual facts with something my mind made up so that my made up memory is consistent with the facts I heard. So, yeah, very skeptical when people tell me they can remember being two, because the odds are very much against it, and I say this as someone who has "memories" from 2yo, and I don't believe that those memories are, in fact, the memories of a 2yo me. Not even a little bit. [1] Memory #1: being taken to the bathroom one morning by an aunt who sometimes lived with us (and so babysat me quite often and would have done this quite often). I only have a memory of it happening once though, even though it must have happened at least a hundred times. Memory #2: Looking at a patch of grass with a path that lead to the landlords house (also on same property, I was told when older). With either of these, I can't be sure if I was 1, 2, 3 or 4 years old at the time. I also cannot tell if either was a dream, and if it was, was it a dream I had at 6yo, dreaming about being 2 yo or was it a dream I had when 2yo?
- johnisgood 3y ago
  How do they even know they were 2, and not, say, 3 or 4? Most of my memories have been "implanted" when I have heard stories or I have seen photographs.
  - weikju 3y ago
    In my case, I would know roughly because some memories I have are from a certain house. My family moved to a different city before I was 3, so those memories can only be from 0-2 years of age.
    - johnisgood 3y ago
      I am sure I have such memories, too, but I cannot, for certain, say that I was 2 years of age or less at the time.
      - weikju 3y ago
        Yeah, just lucky that my family moved when I was young, offering a way to situate my memories in time, somewhat.
- sethammons 3y ago
  > I doubt it My earliest memory is at 18 months. How do I know? I recall the building (and some activities and decor inside) that I was in and my mom only went into that building for some medical appointments when I was that age. How do I know it is not a fake memory? Not sure how I could build a fake memory and then ask my mom about a given building and decor (at like age 12 or something while discussing earliest memories) and she tells me, surprised, that the last time we were there was when I was that young.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > she tells me, surprised, Your mother has a perfect memory of all conversations she had with you or in your presence? That's probably even more unlikely than retaining a memory from age 2 to age 12.
    - sethammons 3y ago
      I don't know what world view of yours that I'm challenging. Self reflect on that. Where did I say my mom has a memory of a conversation at all? I have a memory of a conversation and an earlier memory. Do you really not recall having had conversations, especially when learning something new, from when you were young? If it is my mom's memory, do you not recall the last time you were somewhere else? Like, you couldn't name the year you had a surgery? My mom and I, while I was 12, had a conversation. The conversation was about early memories. During that conversation I told of my earliest memory to which my mom replied, in that conversation, that that building and appointment(s) were from when I was 18 months old. I was twelve when I learned what my age was at the time of the early memory. I am now much older than twelve and I recall this conversation with my mom (and I still recall the memory we were discussing). She was surprised, when I was twelve, that I had such an early memory.
      - lelanthran 3y ago
        > I don't know what world view of yours that I'm challenging. Self reflect on that. You're taking skepticism of extraordinary recall much more personally than I am being skeptical. Your remark about self-reflection is a good one for you to consider too. I already considered the possibility that my 2yo self might have created memories I know have, and rejected it as too outlandish. > The conversation was about early memories. During that conversation I told of my earliest memory to which my mom replied, in that conversation, that that building and appointment(s) were from when I was 18 months old. Unless your mum has a perfect memory, it's far more likely that she mentioned it to you or in your presence as you grew, and then forgot she did. You have never considered the possibility that your mum probably forgot that you were told or within earshot when she told someone else all about that place?
- plastic3169 3y ago
  I feel that I don’t have early memories, but for some reason I have a sense of the house I lived in before I was 3. My mother didn’t believe me so I draw her the floor plan one day. She said that’s great but where is the cellar? There apparently were steep steps to another floor which I wasn’t allowed to go and which didn’t exist in my memory. Now the memory seems very faded and I don’t think I could draw the place anymore.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > There apparently were steep steps to another floor which I wasn’t allowed to go and which didn’t exist in my memory. Surely, if that had been a memory, you'd have remembered steps, even if you never went down them. Like remembering a table in the middle of the room even if you never ate at it.

lelanthran 3y ago

> I have memories from when I was 2 that my parents also remember. I doubt it. How can you tell the difference between real memories and implanted memories[1]? Children as old as 11 have been successfully implanted with memories of things that never occurred by their parents, and who later testified that their parents told them nothing! [1] Your parents told you at age 4 what you did at age 2, you remembered the act because it was told to you, you don't remember the act of them telling you.

gnyman 3y ago
No need to question the previous comments experiences. Is there really anything which is "certain" when it comes to memories? I'm not a memory expert, but as I recently read a book on the subject I think I have better than average understanding of it. If you can read Swedish or Finnish I do recommend it, the title is "Minnets Makt" by Julia Korkman (freely translated "The power of memory", official title is "Memory Dependent")[1]. The book taught me a lot about how memories work, how they are formed, recalled and modified during the years. And as memories are a core part of everyone's life, I think it would be good for more people to understand them better. I did find a youtube video where the author, does a short lecture meant for law enforcement to teach them the basics of how memories work. As for them it is even more important to understand how meories, especially the recall of memories work when they interview people. Disclaimer, I haven't watched it yet, only skimmed it but it does seem to cover the same concepts as in the book. I recommend spending 27 minutes watching it for anyone who's curious about how the memory work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSyEs6feH0M&t=442s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSyEs6feH0M&t=442s [1] https://www.helsinkiagency.fi/memory-dependent/ https://www.helsinkiagency.fi/memory-dependent/
The_Colonel 3y ago
> How can you tell the difference between real memories and implanted memories[1]? Let's say something emotionally significant happened to you at the age of 2. Because it was significant, you keep recalling it regularly, maybe every week or so. Recalling and thinking about the memory is also strengthening it (and often altering it). There's not enough time to forget it if you keep refreshing the memory of it (kinda like LRU cache). I have a couple of such early memories which I believe survived through this recall mechanism.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > Because it was significant, you keep recalling it regularly, maybe every week or so. That's not how two year olds work. Even something as significant as losing a (or both) parents is still not significant enough to be recalled periodically, and we have many cases of that to support the hypothesis that "that's not how two year old brains work". > I have a couple of such early memories which I believe survived through this recall mechanism. I'm still skeptical. The first reason is that two year olds don't understand the concept of age in years (or age at all, TBH - they recognoise larger people and smaller poeple, but hafve no conept of age). The second reason is that the odds are very much against your hypothesis. I have maybe ... two memories which I think were from age 2, but before age 3. But I cannot determine if I was three or four at the time, instead of two. I cannot determine if they were real or a dream (because they are memories of an event of such non-significance[1] that no one else remembered). I also cannot determine if they were not real and not a dream! I cannot tell if I "remember" them purely because when I was older my mum used to talk about the place they lived in when I was born, and with all the details, 6yo me simply interleaved actual facts with something my mind made up so that my made up memory is consistent with the facts I heard. So, yeah, very skeptical when people tell me they can remember being two, because the odds are very much against it, and I say this as someone who has "memories" from 2yo, and I don't believe that those memories are, in fact, the memories of a 2yo me. Not even a little bit. [1] Memory #1: being taken to the bathroom one morning by an aunt who sometimes lived with us (and so babysat me quite often and would have done this quite often). I only have a memory of it happening once though, even though it must have happened at least a hundred times. Memory #2: Looking at a patch of grass with a path that lead to the landlords house (also on same property, I was told when older). With either of these, I can't be sure if I was 1, 2, 3 or 4 years old at the time. I also cannot tell if either was a dream, and if it was, was it a dream I had at 6yo, dreaming about being 2 yo or was it a dream I had when 2yo?
johnisgood 3y ago
How do they even know they were 2, and not, say, 3 or 4? Most of my memories have been "implanted" when I have heard stories or I have seen photographs.
- weikju 3y ago
  In my case, I would know roughly because some memories I have are from a certain house. My family moved to a different city before I was 3, so those memories can only be from 0-2 years of age.
  - johnisgood 3y ago
    I am sure I have such memories, too, but I cannot, for certain, say that I was 2 years of age or less at the time.
    - weikju 3y ago
      Yeah, just lucky that my family moved when I was young, offering a way to situate my memories in time, somewhat.
sethammons 3y ago
> I doubt it My earliest memory is at 18 months. How do I know? I recall the building (and some activities and decor inside) that I was in and my mom only went into that building for some medical appointments when I was that age. How do I know it is not a fake memory? Not sure how I could build a fake memory and then ask my mom about a given building and decor (at like age 12 or something while discussing earliest memories) and she tells me, surprised, that the last time we were there was when I was that young.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > she tells me, surprised, Your mother has a perfect memory of all conversations she had with you or in your presence? That's probably even more unlikely than retaining a memory from age 2 to age 12.
  - sethammons 3y ago
    I don't know what world view of yours that I'm challenging. Self reflect on that. Where did I say my mom has a memory of a conversation at all? I have a memory of a conversation and an earlier memory. Do you really not recall having had conversations, especially when learning something new, from when you were young? If it is my mom's memory, do you not recall the last time you were somewhere else? Like, you couldn't name the year you had a surgery? My mom and I, while I was 12, had a conversation. The conversation was about early memories. During that conversation I told of my earliest memory to which my mom replied, in that conversation, that that building and appointment(s) were from when I was 18 months old. I was twelve when I learned what my age was at the time of the early memory. I am now much older than twelve and I recall this conversation with my mom (and I still recall the memory we were discussing). She was surprised, when I was twelve, that I had such an early memory.
    - lelanthran 3y ago
      > I don't know what world view of yours that I'm challenging. Self reflect on that. You're taking skepticism of extraordinary recall much more personally than I am being skeptical. Your remark about self-reflection is a good one for you to consider too. I already considered the possibility that my 2yo self might have created memories I know have, and rejected it as too outlandish. > The conversation was about early memories. During that conversation I told of my earliest memory to which my mom replied, in that conversation, that that building and appointment(s) were from when I was 18 months old. Unless your mum has a perfect memory, it's far more likely that she mentioned it to you or in your presence as you grew, and then forgot she did. You have never considered the possibility that your mum probably forgot that you were told or within earshot when she told someone else all about that place?
plastic3169 3y ago
I feel that I don’t have early memories, but for some reason I have a sense of the house I lived in before I was 3. My mother didn’t believe me so I draw her the floor plan one day. She said that’s great but where is the cellar? There apparently were steep steps to another floor which I wasn’t allowed to go and which didn’t exist in my memory. Now the memory seems very faded and I don’t think I could draw the place anymore.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > There apparently were steep steps to another floor which I wasn’t allowed to go and which didn’t exist in my memory. Surely, if that had been a memory, you'd have remembered steps, even if you never went down them. Like remembering a table in the middle of the room even if you never ate at it.