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While my heart goes out to all the victims' families, what are platforms like Facebook supposed to do here? Are they supposed to monitor the content of the cha

While my heart goes out to all the victims' families, what are platforms like Facebook supposed to do here? Are they supposed to monitor the content of the chats? Some would call that eavesdropping. The sad fact is that desperate people exist. And these desperate people are willing to do despicable things to make a buck.

bikemore 3y ago
If Facebook were at all a force for good in this world, maybe I'd agree with you. But given the litany of other social ills they are directly or indirectly responsible for, I'm fairly confident you could nuke them tomorrow and the world would be a better place. So "Facebook should abort itself" is one option.
- nextlevelwizard 3y ago
  And then people would move to yet another social media site and nothing changes
  - bikemore 3y ago
    Good, I'm glad we've decided to just let the world rot because why bother. Great solution.
ben_w 3y ago
> Are they supposed to monitor the content of the chats? Some would call that eavesdropping. I rather assumed they already did monitor chat, in order to target adverts, A/B test, handle abuse reports, filter spam, etc. Even if FB says it has "end to end encryption", I can't fully believe them due to the political pressure under the banner "terrorism/kids get hurt" is immense regardless of us here regarding that as thought terminating cliché from the intelligence agencies.
olliej 3y ago
Facebook does monitor - and sell - all user data. You don’t get to say “we will read your messages to sell ads, we will straight up sell your message history to other companies, but no we can’t do anything to protect users from trivially detectable scams.
- delfinom 3y ago
  That's really stretching the definition of sell. They used to actually sell your days to select groups. Now they sell advertiser ads based on your data but the advertiser does not get to see said data.
  - olliej 3y ago
    It sounds to me and others like they literally sold people's messages to netflix: https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/facebook-let-netflix-peek-user-dms-explosive-court-docs-claim https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/facebook-let-netflix-...
TeMPOraL 3y ago
> Are they supposed to monitor the content of the chats? Some would call that eavesdropping. FWIW, if the goal is to detect potential scam/abuse scenarios and offer help, then nowadays, they could train a ML classifier and have it run locally. If the conversation gets classified as highly suspect, the app could pop up some "this looks suspect, if you need help press HERE to share the conversation with us" warning. Privacy concerns would go away entirely, if nothing is actually reported to the mothership until the user specifically reports a conversation. There's only so much they can do for users behind their backs, and a lot of that is undesirable unless you trust the company to be benevolent; local classifiers popping up recommendations could, however, help users help themselves.
spacebanana7 3y ago
Ironically Onlyfans have really good systems for this. All communication is monitored and any mention of blackmail (including indirect references) will get the sending account banned.
- mikrotikker 3y ago
  What? How does that work on only fans of all places? Surely you'd just DMCA the "extorter" (read: copyright breacher)
  - spacebanana7 3y ago
    The blackmail risk is actually fairly balanced between content creators and subscribers. If you look on Twitter for example, you'll see loads of adult content creators blackmailing their customers. AFAIK Onlyfans doesn't directly purse blackmail cases with its own legal teams, it just bans accounts.
IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
You can easily inform the end user, so the conversation is transparent and the victim is giving implicit, informed consent. "NOTICE: The user appears to be in XXX, Nigeria. The User's hometown and usual IP is XXX , USA. Beware of scams or impersonations by people hijacking your friend's accounts" But Social media companies would never do this because it would destroy their so called "brand-trust"
- neal_jones 3y ago
  Agreed on this being a basic first step, although any scammer of any value would just get a VPN. Another user noted that OnlyFans is analyzing text and bans anyone saying anything approaching blackmail. Odd (but maybe not odd at all) to think that OnlyFans might be the leader on this.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
    I agree. Yet, I assume professionals (with VPN) would definitely attract more law enforcement action due to size of transfers. But if you can prevent script kiddies, why not? The current barrier to entry is so damn low. Paying VPN is indeed a barrier to entry.
    - nicolas_t 3y ago
      There are databases sold by the likes of Maxmind to identify a lot of the common VPNs so this could also be detected. Of course it's a game of cat and mouse but still better than nothing.
    - reincoder 3y ago
      I work for IPinfo, where we provide a VPN detection service. Some people think that our VPN detection service restricts access to various services through a VPN. However, if someone is paying for their internet and then chooses to pay an additional $15-$20 a month for a VPN service, it is likely to be a source of good traffic. From the point of Facebook, I think they use SMS verification and their app also requires location permission. Facebook is pretty good at preventing bad signups. What they need to do is invest that effort in keeping their user base safe.

bikemore 3y ago

If Facebook were at all a force for good in this world, maybe I'd agree with you. But given the litany of other social ills they are directly or indirectly responsible for, I'm fairly confident you could nuke them tomorrow and the world would be a better place. So "Facebook should abort itself" is one option.

nextlevelwizard 3y ago
And then people would move to yet another social media site and nothing changes
- bikemore 3y ago
  Good, I'm glad we've decided to just let the world rot because why bother. Great solution.

ben_w 3y ago

> Are they supposed to monitor the content of the chats? Some would call that eavesdropping. I rather assumed they already did monitor chat, in order to target adverts, A/B test, handle abuse reports, filter spam, etc. Even if FB says it has "end to end encryption", I can't fully believe them due to the political pressure under the banner "terrorism/kids get hurt" is immense regardless of us here regarding that as thought terminating cliché from the intelligence agencies.

olliej 3y ago

Facebook does monitor - and sell - all user data. You don’t get to say “we will read your messages to sell ads, we will straight up sell your message history to other companies, but no we can’t do anything to protect users from trivially detectable scams.

delfinom 3y ago
That's really stretching the definition of sell. They used to actually sell your days to select groups. Now they sell advertiser ads based on your data but the advertiser does not get to see said data.
- olliej 3y ago
  It sounds to me and others like they literally sold people's messages to netflix: https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/facebook-let-netflix-peek-user-dms-explosive-court-docs-claim https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/facebook-let-netflix-...

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> Are they supposed to monitor the content of the chats? Some would call that eavesdropping. FWIW, if the goal is to detect potential scam/abuse scenarios and offer help, then nowadays, they could train a ML classifier and have it run locally. If the conversation gets classified as highly suspect, the app could pop up some "this looks suspect, if you need help press HERE to share the conversation with us" warning. Privacy concerns would go away entirely, if nothing is actually reported to the mothership until the user specifically reports a conversation. There's only so much they can do for users behind their backs, and a lot of that is undesirable unless you trust the company to be benevolent; local classifiers popping up recommendations could, however, help users help themselves.

spacebanana7 3y ago

Ironically Onlyfans have really good systems for this. All communication is monitored and any mention of blackmail (including indirect references) will get the sending account banned.

mikrotikker 3y ago
What? How does that work on only fans of all places? Surely you'd just DMCA the "extorter" (read: copyright breacher)
- spacebanana7 3y ago
  The blackmail risk is actually fairly balanced between content creators and subscribers. If you look on Twitter for example, you'll see loads of adult content creators blackmailing their customers. AFAIK Onlyfans doesn't directly purse blackmail cases with its own legal teams, it just bans accounts.

IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago

You can easily inform the end user, so the conversation is transparent and the victim is giving implicit, informed consent. "NOTICE: The user appears to be in XXX, Nigeria. The User's hometown and usual IP is XXX , USA. Beware of scams or impersonations by people hijacking your friend's accounts" But Social media companies would never do this because it would destroy their so called "brand-trust"

neal_jones 3y ago
Agreed on this being a basic first step, although any scammer of any value would just get a VPN. Another user noted that OnlyFans is analyzing text and bans anyone saying anything approaching blackmail. Odd (but maybe not odd at all) to think that OnlyFans might be the leader on this.
- IG_Semmelweiss 3y ago
  I agree. Yet, I assume professionals (with VPN) would definitely attract more law enforcement action due to size of transfers. But if you can prevent script kiddies, why not? The current barrier to entry is so damn low. Paying VPN is indeed a barrier to entry.
  - nicolas_t 3y ago
    There are databases sold by the likes of Maxmind to identify a lot of the common VPNs so this could also be detected. Of course it's a game of cat and mouse but still better than nothing.
  - reincoder 3y ago
    I work for IPinfo, where we provide a VPN detection service. Some people think that our VPN detection service restricts access to various services through a VPN. However, if someone is paying for their internet and then chooses to pay an additional $15-$20 a month for a VPN service, it is likely to be a source of good traffic. From the point of Facebook, I think they use SMS verification and their app also requires location permission. Facebook is pretty good at preventing bad signups. What they need to do is invest that effort in keeping their user base safe.