28 ms·

'Pacifist' Japan is tooling up for war

59 points by jseliger 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
csmiller 3y ago
Si vis pacem, para bellum
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
swozey 3y ago
The entire speech is a great read, especially if you happen to be the type of American that the PM is referring to, fatigued, et al. https://japan.kantei.go.jp/101_kishida/statement/202404/11speech.html https://japan.kantei.go.jp/101_kishida/statement/202404/11sp...
- belter 3y ago
  Never though I would be spending my Tuesday evening reading, Japanese Prime Minister speeches :-) but agree. Quite an interesting, focused and clear speech.
- legitster 3y ago
  > Russia’s unprovoked, unjust, and brutal war of aggression against Ukraine has entered its third year. As I often say, Ukraine of today may be East Asia of tomorrow. Furthermore, Russia continues to threaten the use of nuclear weapons, which has contributed to worldwide concern that yet another catastrophe by nuclear weapon use is a real possibility. In this reality, close coordination between Japan and the U.S. is required more than ever to ensure that the deterrence our Alliance provides remains credible and resilient. I appreciate how clear and straightforward the speech is. Ukraine was a wakeup call that Pax Americana is over and China is the next threat.
  - yongjik 3y ago
    > As I often say, Ukraine of today may be East Asia of tomorrow. Well, I get that Kishida wants to position himself firmly on "Team America" side, but this is a bit rich, coming from a country that did to East Asia what Russia did to its neighbors.
    - thunderbong 3y ago
      We can keep looking back, or we can look forward.
    - bamboozled 3y ago
      It was a completely different country and culture back then.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bamboozled 3y ago
Watching how the USA has abandoned its ally, Ukraine and just let innocent people and brave soldiers die, Japan would be crazy not too start gaining back their independence. Not sure what happened to the USA but I never thought I’d see it side with autocratic war criminals. Quite concerning for all our allies. If the orange man wins again this year, we’ll god help everyone.
- glitchc 3y ago
  The US did not want to start a world war over Ukraine. It stepping in would have meant precisely that.
  - aredox 3y ago
    Not stepping in is exactly what is going to cause a world war.
    - yesco 3y ago
      So you would prefer the war in Ukraine to go nuclear? This isn't a hypothetical.
      - aredox 3y ago
        What is even less hypotethical is that dozens of countries are now actively making plans to arm themselves with nuclear weapons, as the US refuses to take the risk to step in. Dare to guess what are the risks of nuclear war (even by accident) when that becomes the new normal? The Russian aren't going to make less nuclear threats if the US keeps folding.
  - Fauntleroy 3y ago
    They're referring to the sudden end of support for Ukraine, done at the behest of Donald Trump. Republican lawmakers were actually considering continuing it until he demanded they not do so.
  - rllearneratwork 3y ago
hyperluz 3y ago
Don't know why someone flagged u/lioeters message: "The U.S. is tooling up Japan for war." It's so true. Japan "has been buying" high tech war tools from USA, like self-dismantling F-35s, for some time now.
- belter 3y ago
  In case you did not notice...If China takes over Taiwan, Chinese troops will be 60 miles from Japanese territory...
- jbm 3y ago
  I don't know why you are being downvoted. At one point "pacifist" Japan was one of the top world spenders on "defense". It's a sham and has always been so. The only benefit was that Japan didn't have to join the initial phase of any of America's invasions on behalf of its asian/middle east ally/ies. They have been spending big since the mid 90s. It's too bad that the SDF is still incompetent compared to its neighbours. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/JPN/japan/military-spending-defense-budget https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/JPN/jap...
simonblack 3y ago
Silly move. It couldn't beat the US the last time. Why would it think it can beat China which at least 4 times the size of the US?
- DoreenMichele 3y ago
  The kamikaze (Japanese: 神風, lit. 'divine wind') were two winds or storms that are said to have saved Japan from two Mongol fleets under Kublai Khan. These fleets attacked Japan in 1274 and again in 1281. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze_(typhoon) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze_(typhoon)
- Bostonian 3y ago
  There is a difference between invading a larger country and defending your country from a larger neighbor. Should Japan not prepare to defend itself from China?
alephnerd 3y ago
Japan is preparing for a 2 front war - Taiwan and North Korea. It's safe to assume that any war over Taiwan will inevitably include Japan, and that any escalation in TW will leave an opening for a similar escalation on the DMZ in Korea. Also, Japan does have a land dispute with Russia over the Kuril Islands, but that will probably never be a hot war.
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Really sad it's come to this for the world. It's presented as a push forward, but it seems so unnecessary that the world be forced to arm up at this point: > "This self-doubt is arising at a time when our world is at history’s turning point. The post-cold war era is already behind us, and we are now at an inflection point that will define the next stage of human history," he said. Given where we are and that things seem to be slipping, I'm a little less reserved about some of my enjoyment of following the defense industry. Japan is an interesting case. It seems like Japan, the British, and North Grumann are going to build a YF23 like craft, merging the British Tempest program with Japans F-X and getting help from other nations. https://newatlas.com/military/uk-japan-italy-team-up-6th-gen-fighter-plane/ https://newatlas.com/military/uk-japan-italy-team-up-6th-gen... There's a lot American defense industry is doing well, but also damn too often it takes us forever to get stuff integrated & going. The F-35 is talking about basically throwing out the upgrade plan that was in place, & going for an agile let's see what we can actually do & reassess as we go strategy. Having the rest of the world no longer put all their eggs in the US defense basket is likely terrible for us, but I admit I am a bit excited and hopeful that we'll have more than the messed up carved-up MIC petri dish model to see and learn from. F-35 program could reshuffle long-term upgrade plan, deliver TR-3 jets early without full capability https://breakingdefense.com/2024/04/f-35-program-could-reshuffle-long-term-upgrade-plan-deliver-tr-3-jets-early-without-full-capability/ https://breakingdefense.com/2024/04/f-35-program-could-reshu...
incomingpain 3y ago
Japan needs to; for the same reason Australia needs Aukus. The USA has withdrawn from being Team America: World Police Taiwan will fall; hence their rush to move their manufacturing to SK, Japan, and USA. It's very difficult to see how India, SK and Japan doesn't get pulled into this. Harder to predict for Vietnam, Philo, Indo, etc. The scary thing, how does this conflict not go nuclear?

59 points by jseliger 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

csmiller 3y ago

Si vis pacem, para bellum

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

swozey 3y ago

The entire speech is a great read, especially if you happen to be the type of American that the PM is referring to, fatigued, et al. https://japan.kantei.go.jp/101_kishida/statement/202404/11speech.html https://japan.kantei.go.jp/101_kishida/statement/202404/11sp...

belter 3y ago
Never though I would be spending my Tuesday evening reading, Japanese Prime Minister speeches :-) but agree. Quite an interesting, focused and clear speech.
legitster 3y ago
> Russia’s unprovoked, unjust, and brutal war of aggression against Ukraine has entered its third year. As I often say, Ukraine of today may be East Asia of tomorrow. Furthermore, Russia continues to threaten the use of nuclear weapons, which has contributed to worldwide concern that yet another catastrophe by nuclear weapon use is a real possibility. In this reality, close coordination between Japan and the U.S. is required more than ever to ensure that the deterrence our Alliance provides remains credible and resilient. I appreciate how clear and straightforward the speech is. Ukraine was a wakeup call that Pax Americana is over and China is the next threat.
- yongjik 3y ago
  > As I often say, Ukraine of today may be East Asia of tomorrow. Well, I get that Kishida wants to position himself firmly on "Team America" side, but this is a bit rich, coming from a country that did to East Asia what Russia did to its neighbors.
  - thunderbong 3y ago
    We can keep looking back, or we can look forward.
  - bamboozled 3y ago
    It was a completely different country and culture back then.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

bamboozled 3y ago

Watching how the USA has abandoned its ally, Ukraine and just let innocent people and brave soldiers die, Japan would be crazy not too start gaining back their independence. Not sure what happened to the USA but I never thought I’d see it side with autocratic war criminals. Quite concerning for all our allies. If the orange man wins again this year, we’ll god help everyone.

glitchc 3y ago
The US did not want to start a world war over Ukraine. It stepping in would have meant precisely that.
- aredox 3y ago
  Not stepping in is exactly what is going to cause a world war.
  - yesco 3y ago
    So you would prefer the war in Ukraine to go nuclear? This isn't a hypothetical.
    - aredox 3y ago
      What is even less hypotethical is that dozens of countries are now actively making plans to arm themselves with nuclear weapons, as the US refuses to take the risk to step in. Dare to guess what are the risks of nuclear war (even by accident) when that becomes the new normal? The Russian aren't going to make less nuclear threats if the US keeps folding.
- Fauntleroy 3y ago
  They're referring to the sudden end of support for Ukraine, done at the behest of Donald Trump. Republican lawmakers were actually considering continuing it until he demanded they not do so.
- rllearneratwork 3y ago

hyperluz 3y ago

Don't know why someone flagged u/lioeters message: "The U.S. is tooling up Japan for war." It's so true. Japan "has been buying" high tech war tools from USA, like self-dismantling F-35s, for some time now.

belter 3y ago
In case you did not notice...If China takes over Taiwan, Chinese troops will be 60 miles from Japanese territory...
jbm 3y ago
I don't know why you are being downvoted. At one point "pacifist" Japan was one of the top world spenders on "defense". It's a sham and has always been so. The only benefit was that Japan didn't have to join the initial phase of any of America's invasions on behalf of its asian/middle east ally/ies. They have been spending big since the mid 90s. It's too bad that the SDF is still incompetent compared to its neighbours. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/JPN/japan/military-spending-defense-budget https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/JPN/jap...

simonblack 3y ago

Silly move. It couldn't beat the US the last time. Why would it think it can beat China which at least 4 times the size of the US?

DoreenMichele 3y ago
The kamikaze (Japanese: 神風, lit. 'divine wind') were two winds or storms that are said to have saved Japan from two Mongol fleets under Kublai Khan. These fleets attacked Japan in 1274 and again in 1281. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze_(typhoon) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze_(typhoon)
Bostonian 3y ago
There is a difference between invading a larger country and defending your country from a larger neighbor. Should Japan not prepare to defend itself from China?

alephnerd 3y ago

Japan is preparing for a 2 front war - Taiwan and North Korea. It's safe to assume that any war over Taiwan will inevitably include Japan, and that any escalation in TW will leave an opening for a similar escalation on the DMZ in Korea. Also, Japan does have a land dispute with Russia over the Kuril Islands, but that will probably never be a hot war.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

Really sad it's come to this for the world. It's presented as a push forward, but it seems so unnecessary that the world be forced to arm up at this point: > "This self-doubt is arising at a time when our world is at history’s turning point. The post-cold war era is already behind us, and we are now at an inflection point that will define the next stage of human history," he said. Given where we are and that things seem to be slipping, I'm a little less reserved about some of my enjoyment of following the defense industry. Japan is an interesting case. It seems like Japan, the British, and North Grumann are going to build a YF23 like craft, merging the British Tempest program with Japans F-X and getting help from other nations. https://newatlas.com/military/uk-japan-italy-team-up-6th-gen-fighter-plane/ https://newatlas.com/military/uk-japan-italy-team-up-6th-gen... There's a lot American defense industry is doing well, but also damn too often it takes us forever to get stuff integrated & going. The F-35 is talking about basically throwing out the upgrade plan that was in place, & going for an agile let's see what we can actually do & reassess as we go strategy. Having the rest of the world no longer put all their eggs in the US defense basket is likely terrible for us, but I admit I am a bit excited and hopeful that we'll have more than the messed up carved-up MIC petri dish model to see and learn from. F-35 program could reshuffle long-term upgrade plan, deliver TR-3 jets early without full capability https://breakingdefense.com/2024/04/f-35-program-could-reshuffle-long-term-upgrade-plan-deliver-tr-3-jets-early-without-full-capability/ https://breakingdefense.com/2024/04/f-35-program-could-reshu...

incomingpain 3y ago

Japan needs to; for the same reason Australia needs Aukus. The USA has withdrawn from being Team America: World Police Taiwan will fall; hence their rush to move their manufacturing to SK, Japan, and USA. It's very difficult to see how India, SK and Japan doesn't get pulled into this. Harder to predict for Vietnam, Philo, Indo, etc. The scary thing, how does this conflict not go nuclear?