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Yes Ukraine showed the world that nuclear disarmament was possible -- and what the consequences are.
by amadeuspagel 3y ago
Yes Ukraine showed the world that nuclear disarmament was possible -- and what the consequences are.
- alephnerd 3y agoSouth Africa disarmed their nuclear weapons as well and showed the benefits of that.
- FrustratedMonky 3y agoWho was going to invade South Africa? Ukraine proved you should keep them.
- alephnerd 3y agoThere are 2 existential crises that every country risks: 1. The worry of invasion 2. The worry of implosion South Africa in the 1990s was at a very risk of imploding into civil war. Access to nuclear weapons would have made this risk of implosion even worse. This was a similar worry most of the world had about Ukraine and Kazakhstan after the USSR collapsed - look at what happened to Tajikistan, Georgia, Moldova, Armenia, and Azerbaijan in the 1990s. Hell, there was even an attempted coup in Moscow in the 1990s. The fewer countries that have nuclear weapons, the easier it is to decrease the chances of the next conflict (war or civil war) using nuclear weapons.
- fractallyte 3y agoBut trusting Russia with stewardship of nuclear weapons, all the while knowing its deplorable record with regards to its neighbors? That was a colossal geopolitical mistake, and the consequences were predictable. And I would posit that the aim of limiting countries with nuclear weapons is simplistic. If a nuclear power decides to terrorize a non-nuclear, but industrially advanced neighbor, the victim is likely to acquire a nuclear capability, one way or another, either now or in the future. It hasn't happened yet with Ukraine, but I believe it is inevitable. Furthermore, that nuclear capability will come with a (justified) grudge. I would certainly want to vaporize my bully. The end result is that the probability of nuclear conflict has increased, not decreased.
- wwtrv 3y agoUkraine had nuclear weapons stationed in its territory but did it actually control and had the capacity to use them? From what I understood that would have required significant investment which probably was politically and financially infeasible in the early 90s.
- baybal2 3y ago[dead]
- alephnerd 3y ago> did it actually control and had the capacity to use them A major worry at the time was that individuals in Ukraine could sell those weapons and the know how to the highest bidders. It wasn't an unlikely prospect - China, Pakistan, and India all bought defense IP from individuals in Ukraine during the collapse of the USSR and before post-Soviet states governance were formalized (eg. China and India can now manufacture Aircraft carriers, nuclear submarines, and turbofan jet engines because of IP they bought using questionable methods in Ukraine in the 1990s)
- rand0mx1 3y agoBetter to provide any source. You are making many wild accusations on this site since a month ago.
- alephnerd 3y agoChina's Aircraft Carrier program - https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA113755343&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00281484&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=mlin_oweb&isGeoAuthType=true&aty=geo https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA113755343&sid=googleS... China's Jet Turbine Program - https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/CASI/documents/Research/Infrastructure/2020-04-15%20CASI_Aeroengines.pdf https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/CASI/documents/R... As well as this co-investigation by the SIPRI and Reuters [0] into Ukrainian defense IP sales to China. What are the "accusations" of mine that you would call wild? I can give citations for all that are needed. I just sometimes don't on HN because citations take time. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/ukraine-crisis-threatens-chinas-discreet-pipeline-military-technology-2022-03-03/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/ukraine-crisis-threatens...
- richrichie 3y ago[flagged]
- abcdefg12 3y agoCan’t downvote but this is pure russian propaganda and pretext for the invasion.
- richrichie 3y agoWhat do you dispute as fiction? - civilian deaths in Donbas during 2014-2021 from Ukraine military action? - Coup - legislation measures for gross restriction of Russian language usage Calling data you do not like Russian propaganda is weak.
- fractallyte 3y agoDiminishing a nation's sovereignty with fiction about "coup", "oppression", and "genocide" is precisely propaganda - from a known propaganda superpower.
- mopsi 3y agoAll of that is fiction.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]