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Self hosting is definitely the way toward rewilding the internet. If everyone ran their own blogs, chats, email, etc. and let their systems federate thru proto

Self hosting is definitely the way toward rewilding the internet. If everyone ran their own blogs, chats, email, etc. and let their systems federate thru protocol rather than on a single platform, the forests will thrive again.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cgh 2y ago
The article is primarily about breaking up certain technology companies into their broad constituent parts and mandating interoperability, presumably by law. That seems a lot more realistic than your average person self-hosting, which almost everyone would view as a hassle and a usability fail.
johnny22 2y ago
I have the technical capability to host, but I don't want the responsibility or want to spend the time. I don't wanna be interrupted from my actual work or hobbies to fix up my personal hosted stuff. I just want to let someone or some group handle that for me.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  Get shared hosting.
  - johnny22 2y ago
    I still have to manage the service or the code. I don't wanna worry about software updates.
    - logicprog 2y ago
      auto updating podman containers.
      - johnny22 2y ago
        so you're saying there will never be a breaking change when the or bugs when the software updates? ever? That seems unlikely. I've managed my own servers many times before and that's never been the case.
        logicprog 2y ago
        I wasn't saying that just that it should help a lot with minimizing the work. I self host my own stuff too, plenty of it.
        johnny22 2y ago
        and no one is stopping you. I just don't want to.
ranger_danger 2y ago
> federate But I think the problem quickly turns to over-fragmentation, even with something like matrix, mastodon or lemmy today, there are so many different instances and many of them are blocking several other instances from federating with them, people don't know where to go and have too many different places to look for stuff that they simply won't even try.
- johnny22 2y ago
  I still don't have a matrix account anywhere because of that. Let alone the others. I want my own identity, but I don't wanna host a whole server. It'd be cool if fastmail offered such a service
myself248 2y ago
I already have plenty of hobbies, though -- the ones I want to write about on my blog. I don't need self-hosting to be a new hobby. I would love if I could pay a "gardener" to maintain my self-hosted stuff. My hardware (that's one hobby!), my bandwidth, my choice of non-invasive species (informed by consultation with the gardener, which ones they'd like to maintain), but ultimately someone else does the planting, the weeding, the single sign-on integration, the updates.
- account42 2y ago
  > the single sign-on integration Maybe just don't overcomplicate things and you won't need to hire a gardener. A static website is not that hard and you can minimize how much infrastructure you need to maintain yourself to pretty much zero.
gitgud 2y ago
I wonder if self-hosting away from giant cloud providers like AWS, Azure and GCloud would be better for the internet too. Self host at home should be much more common than it is…
- giantrobot 2y ago
  > Self host at home should be much more common than it is… It violates your ISP's EULA and they'll shut you down. Unless of course you pay twice as much (for the same service) with a "business" account.
- account42 2y ago
  There's a big step between big cloud and being your own hosting provider. A more traditional VPS (or dedicated server for larger sites) is more reasonable for most and since you control all the software it should be relatively easy to switch to another prover or move to a completely self hosted setup if you need to / want to.
dangrossman 2y ago
Self-hosting means taking a second job as a sysadmin, applying software updates all the time, patching emergency security vulnerabilities, hardening services against constant attacks, deciding whether the daily "I have found a bug in your system and will disclose" mails are legitimate threats. If you fail at any of these tasks, relatively new regulations mean various governments can fine you more than your net worth over failing to report a data breach to the right agency on the right timeline. To me, that's what prevents people from standing up their own blogs and other services on a home-brew server in their house or a $5 VPS these days.
- logicprog 2y ago
  > Self-hosting means taking a second job as a sysadmin True, in the literal sense that you will have to administrate your own system, but I'm sure there must be ways to make this easier for people. Perhaps small computers that come pre-configured with the correct specifications for being a good small-scale server and pre-installed with software that provides a simple web GUI dashboard that you can just drop files on and it will serve them up for you, with everything else taken care of under the hood. > applying software updates all the time With image based distros, containers, and their respective auto-updating schemes, this — and the concomitant problems updates may bring given the extensive and hairy state of most systems — should hopefully become a thing of the past. > patching emergency security vulnerabilities I mean, unless you are running something that is incredibly visible online and linked to you from a lot of places or used by a lot of people and so you need to take extreme extra security steps, shouldn't this be taken care of by just regularly updating your software? For a small scale self-hosted blog or personal email server this seems a hardly proportional. > hardening services against constant attacks Again, it seems like you are projecting the requirements of a much larger scale endeavor onto small-scale personal self hosting of a blog or email server only you use. And to the degree that system hardening is necessary for a small cell posted system, once again image-based operating systems with hardened Pam authentication rules that run everything in rootless podman containers and keep SELinux enabled should be more than hard enough and all that can be configured and set up upstream to the user. > deciding whether the daily "I have found a bug in your system and will disclose" mails are legitimate threats What are you even talking about here? For the third time, it seems like you are projecting the requirements of a much larger scale thing onto small-scale personal self hosting. > If you fail at any of these tasks, relatively new regulations mean various governments can fine you more than your net worth over failing to report a data breach to the right agency on the right timeline A data breach? On a small self-hosted blog or email server? Who's data would those regulations be punishing you for leaking, your own, maybe two freinds'? And those regulations, if you are speaking about the ones in the EU that I am thinking of, have pretty clear cut offs and requirements and stuff that really wouldn't apply to someone's little self-hosted thing.
aeturnum 2y ago
I personally am more interested in micro-hosting services like omg.lol[1]. I do self host a few services, but they are generally on VPNs that have smaller attack surfaces. I don't think it's practical for most individuals to maintain secure web servers, but I think most people can pay a very small amount of money to get most of the benefit. [1] https://home.omg.lol/ https://home.omg.lol/
sdsd 2y ago
I just made a personal site (darigo.su), it's buggy as hell but fun to just make whatever I want. Do any of you have a quirky personal site?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cgh 2y ago

The article is primarily about breaking up certain technology companies into their broad constituent parts and mandating interoperability, presumably by law. That seems a lot more realistic than your average person self-hosting, which almost everyone would view as a hassle and a usability fail.

johnny22 2y ago

I have the technical capability to host, but I don't want the responsibility or want to spend the time. I don't wanna be interrupted from my actual work or hobbies to fix up my personal hosted stuff. I just want to let someone or some group handle that for me.

ipaddr 2y ago
Get shared hosting.
- johnny22 2y ago
  I still have to manage the service or the code. I don't wanna worry about software updates.
  - logicprog 2y ago
    auto updating podman containers.
    - johnny22 2y ago
      so you're saying there will never be a breaking change when the or bugs when the software updates? ever? That seems unlikely. I've managed my own servers many times before and that's never been the case.
      - logicprog 2y ago
        I wasn't saying that just that it should help a lot with minimizing the work. I self host my own stuff too, plenty of it.
        johnny22 2y ago
        and no one is stopping you. I just don't want to.

ranger_danger 2y ago

> federate But I think the problem quickly turns to over-fragmentation, even with something like matrix, mastodon or lemmy today, there are so many different instances and many of them are blocking several other instances from federating with them, people don't know where to go and have too many different places to look for stuff that they simply won't even try.

johnny22 2y ago
I still don't have a matrix account anywhere because of that. Let alone the others. I want my own identity, but I don't wanna host a whole server. It'd be cool if fastmail offered such a service

myself248 2y ago

I already have plenty of hobbies, though -- the ones I want to write about on my blog. I don't need self-hosting to be a new hobby. I would love if I could pay a "gardener" to maintain my self-hosted stuff. My hardware (that's one hobby!), my bandwidth, my choice of non-invasive species (informed by consultation with the gardener, which ones they'd like to maintain), but ultimately someone else does the planting, the weeding, the single sign-on integration, the updates.

account42 2y ago
> the single sign-on integration Maybe just don't overcomplicate things and you won't need to hire a gardener. A static website is not that hard and you can minimize how much infrastructure you need to maintain yourself to pretty much zero.

gitgud 2y ago

I wonder if self-hosting away from giant cloud providers like AWS, Azure and GCloud would be better for the internet too. Self host at home should be much more common than it is…

giantrobot 2y ago
> Self host at home should be much more common than it is… It violates your ISP's EULA and they'll shut you down. Unless of course you pay twice as much (for the same service) with a "business" account.
account42 2y ago
There's a big step between big cloud and being your own hosting provider. A more traditional VPS (or dedicated server for larger sites) is more reasonable for most and since you control all the software it should be relatively easy to switch to another prover or move to a completely self hosted setup if you need to / want to.

dangrossman 2y ago

Self-hosting means taking a second job as a sysadmin, applying software updates all the time, patching emergency security vulnerabilities, hardening services against constant attacks, deciding whether the daily "I have found a bug in your system and will disclose" mails are legitimate threats. If you fail at any of these tasks, relatively new regulations mean various governments can fine you more than your net worth over failing to report a data breach to the right agency on the right timeline. To me, that's what prevents people from standing up their own blogs and other services on a home-brew server in their house or a $5 VPS these days.

logicprog 2y ago
> Self-hosting means taking a second job as a sysadmin True, in the literal sense that you will have to administrate your own system, but I'm sure there must be ways to make this easier for people. Perhaps small computers that come pre-configured with the correct specifications for being a good small-scale server and pre-installed with software that provides a simple web GUI dashboard that you can just drop files on and it will serve them up for you, with everything else taken care of under the hood. > applying software updates all the time With image based distros, containers, and their respective auto-updating schemes, this — and the concomitant problems updates may bring given the extensive and hairy state of most systems — should hopefully become a thing of the past. > patching emergency security vulnerabilities I mean, unless you are running something that is incredibly visible online and linked to you from a lot of places or used by a lot of people and so you need to take extreme extra security steps, shouldn't this be taken care of by just regularly updating your software? For a small scale self-hosted blog or personal email server this seems a hardly proportional. > hardening services against constant attacks Again, it seems like you are projecting the requirements of a much larger scale endeavor onto small-scale personal self hosting of a blog or email server only you use. And to the degree that system hardening is necessary for a small cell posted system, once again image-based operating systems with hardened Pam authentication rules that run everything in rootless podman containers and keep SELinux enabled should be more than hard enough and all that can be configured and set up upstream to the user. > deciding whether the daily "I have found a bug in your system and will disclose" mails are legitimate threats What are you even talking about here? For the third time, it seems like you are projecting the requirements of a much larger scale thing onto small-scale personal self hosting. > If you fail at any of these tasks, relatively new regulations mean various governments can fine you more than your net worth over failing to report a data breach to the right agency on the right timeline A data breach? On a small self-hosted blog or email server? Who's data would those regulations be punishing you for leaking, your own, maybe two freinds'? And those regulations, if you are speaking about the ones in the EU that I am thinking of, have pretty clear cut offs and requirements and stuff that really wouldn't apply to someone's little self-hosted thing.

aeturnum 2y ago

I personally am more interested in micro-hosting services like omg.lol[1]. I do self host a few services, but they are generally on VPNs that have smaller attack surfaces. I don't think it's practical for most individuals to maintain secure web servers, but I think most people can pay a very small amount of money to get most of the benefit. [1] https://home.omg.lol/ https://home.omg.lol/

sdsd 2y ago

I just made a personal site (darigo.su), it's buggy as hell but fun to just make whatever I want. Do any of you have a quirky personal site?