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My point is that someone that is strongly pro-vaccine is more harmful than not. I'd rather have someone that is just going to be unbiased and stick the scientif

My point is that someone that is strongly pro-vaccine is more harmful than not. I'd rather have someone that is just going to be unbiased and stick the scientific method. When you are doing something risky, the risk averse opinion, even if misguided, is far more safe than the the person who's vision is clouded by their preferences. of additional note, 2 FDA officials resigned during the votes on approving booster shots. They were simply replaced, and their concerns were moot. They were hardly anti-vaxxers.

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
> someone that is strongly pro-vaccine is more harmful than not. You make it sound like " someone that is strongly pro-vaccine" is like the supporter of a football team or a "my country right or wrong" person, and therefor "harmful", rather than someone who has reached a decision based on weight of evidence. And I do not see that as accurate at all. In fact it is harmful.
- yonaguska 2y ago
  The original commenter made to comparison of anti-vaxxer vs strongly pro-vaccine, to me, that kind of comparison elicits both extremes of the spectrum. But putting that aside, since I don't think it's a productive discussion- I'm simply pro zero bias. The only bias that should exist is a bias towards non-intervention over interventions. This used to be the standard for evaluating any medicine or vaccine. Or any medical procedure in general. The real important bias issue that I see with the FDA doesn't have so much to do with vaccines specifically, but more with the incestuous relationship between FDA and Pharmaceutical companies, with there being a revolving door of blurry incentives. There's a long running issue of FDA officials, after approving various drugs and treatments for big pharma...then promoting into a big fat salary with a pharmaceutical company. I'm not sure what the solution is, as it makes logical sense that someone at the FDA would share the same skillsets as a big pharma exec, but- the only solution I can think of is to ensure that there are always skeptics on approval boards.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    Looking at this from outside the USA, the emphasis that you place on the USA's FDA in calling the shots seems parochial and misplaced. And a bit conspiratorial. I do not take your claim of "zero bias" seriously while you make comments about "covid vaccine injured and damaged people" - sic. I do not take your claims about "bias towards non-intervention" seriously when you cannot mention the far higher incidence of heart issues etc that results from deliberate withholding of vaccinations. > ensure that there are always skeptics on approval boards. I think that the issue is still that there is more than one definition of "skeptics" and as said above, the anti-vaxxer ideologues simply do not think things through well enough to be of any benefit. See your non-serious claims above.
    - yonaguska 2y ago
      I'm glad you're able to handily dismiss my arguments, because my lived experiences are non-serious. My formerly very active friends in their late twenties/early thirties that developed POTS after vaccination, not after contracting covid, they simply did not think things through enough to make the right conclusions about their experiences.
      - hedora 2y ago
        It's hard to confirm they didn't contract covid or one of the other similar things that popped up during the "tripledemic" after the lockdown started to lift, especially since it sounds like a cluster of people that might have caught something strange from each other and that also report a rare side effect. FWIW, I had some issues that showed up after getting not-covid. They seem to have gone away after a few months of cardio workouts; hope your friends recover.
        yonaguska 2y ago
        All instances of POTS showed up across friends with no overlap, on different ends of the country. The several people that came down with bells palsy- also not in overlapping groups. The latter is associated with the covid shots, the former, not as much, as it's also suspected to occur after covid infection as well, though it's hard to trust the statistics. My friends that suspected the vaccine as the culprit were very aggressively dismissed by their doctors, so I doubt many of those reports were ever logged. I'm glad you recovered, and thanks for the well wishes.

SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago

> someone that is strongly pro-vaccine is more harmful than not. You make it sound like " someone that is strongly pro-vaccine" is like the supporter of a football team or a "my country right or wrong" person, and therefor "harmful", rather than someone who has reached a decision based on weight of evidence. And I do not see that as accurate at all. In fact it is harmful.

yonaguska 2y ago
The original commenter made to comparison of anti-vaxxer vs strongly pro-vaccine, to me, that kind of comparison elicits both extremes of the spectrum. But putting that aside, since I don't think it's a productive discussion- I'm simply pro zero bias. The only bias that should exist is a bias towards non-intervention over interventions. This used to be the standard for evaluating any medicine or vaccine. Or any medical procedure in general. The real important bias issue that I see with the FDA doesn't have so much to do with vaccines specifically, but more with the incestuous relationship between FDA and Pharmaceutical companies, with there being a revolving door of blurry incentives. There's a long running issue of FDA officials, after approving various drugs and treatments for big pharma...then promoting into a big fat salary with a pharmaceutical company. I'm not sure what the solution is, as it makes logical sense that someone at the FDA would share the same skillsets as a big pharma exec, but- the only solution I can think of is to ensure that there are always skeptics on approval boards.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  Looking at this from outside the USA, the emphasis that you place on the USA's FDA in calling the shots seems parochial and misplaced. And a bit conspiratorial. I do not take your claim of "zero bias" seriously while you make comments about "covid vaccine injured and damaged people" - sic. I do not take your claims about "bias towards non-intervention" seriously when you cannot mention the far higher incidence of heart issues etc that results from deliberate withholding of vaccinations. > ensure that there are always skeptics on approval boards. I think that the issue is still that there is more than one definition of "skeptics" and as said above, the anti-vaxxer ideologues simply do not think things through well enough to be of any benefit. See your non-serious claims above.
  - yonaguska 2y ago
    I'm glad you're able to handily dismiss my arguments, because my lived experiences are non-serious. My formerly very active friends in their late twenties/early thirties that developed POTS after vaccination, not after contracting covid, they simply did not think things through enough to make the right conclusions about their experiences.
    - hedora 2y ago
      It's hard to confirm they didn't contract covid or one of the other similar things that popped up during the "tripledemic" after the lockdown started to lift, especially since it sounds like a cluster of people that might have caught something strange from each other and that also report a rare side effect. FWIW, I had some issues that showed up after getting not-covid. They seem to have gone away after a few months of cardio workouts; hope your friends recover.
      - yonaguska 2y ago
        All instances of POTS showed up across friends with no overlap, on different ends of the country. The several people that came down with bells palsy- also not in overlapping groups. The latter is associated with the covid shots, the former, not as much, as it's also suspected to occur after covid infection as well, though it's hard to trust the statistics. My friends that suspected the vaccine as the culprit were very aggressively dismissed by their doctors, so I doubt many of those reports were ever logged. I'm glad you recovered, and thanks for the well wishes.