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I think you meant to say there are manufactured disagreements and ideological differences among Americans, construction of which is impossible without the full-

I think you meant to say there are manufactured disagreements and ideological differences among Americans, construction of which is impossible without the full-throated support of media outlets. Peddling opinion in lieu of fact is bullshit full stop. If you're trying to frame this as a political issue know that I'm deadass certain that supporters of both major political parties are useful idiots carrying water for the oligarch class to their own detriment, so arguments that either side of the current suite of public debates has legitimacy is a tough sell on most issues. As an example, the current tempest in a teapot over transgenderism, however well-intentioned, elevates the notional concerns of a group roughly equivalent to the population of Houston, Texas to a position of a national wedge issue. Attention that has arguably done more harm than good for the very community it's intended to serve. So no, I don't believe disagreements like this need to be serviced since they're entirely synthetic in nature and other than giving fodder to religious and political extremists produce nothing of benefit.

friend_and_foe 3y ago
So to continue on the example we are running with, you don't believe disagreements like this need to be serviced. So the status quo as it was, say, 20 years ago was perfectly acceptable? Or would you like the status quo today, after the disagreement was serviced in favor of one side of the issue? Basically, are you conveniently deciding that it's not worth discussing now that an outcome you like (I don't know what outcome you like) has become reality, or do you genuinely not give a shit one way or another because it's a non issue to you? On another point, what constitutes a manufactured disagreement and what constitutes a genuine one?
- forgetfreeman 3y ago
  Perfectly acceptable? Certainly not, but it was provably better than what we're dealing with currently. To be maybe a little clearer I'm asserting that the culture wars writ large, especially as they're framed today, are (soup to nuts) complete bullshit designed specifically to distract the voter base and atomize society. Understand hassling people generally isn't legal, regardless of the root cause, so loudly proclaiming <victim group du jour> shouldn't be hassled is a waste of column inches and everyone's time unless or until someone decides to actually pass legislation based on a demonstrable loophole in current anti-hassle legislation. It's also instructive to note how political organizations that make bitching about people notionally being hassled conveniently let party majority opportunities to actually pass new or update existing legislation quietly slide with no meaningful action taken. This recommends to suspicion that the stated goal and the actual goal are not the same. As to what constitutes a manufactured disagreement, that seems somewhat self-evident. A more familiar term might be "wedge issue". You correctly mention upthread how disagreements on even the most contentious social issues was handled peacefully and arguably with some tact. This is demonstrably no longer the case so my question to you is this: what changed, who changed it, and who's benefiting from the change?

friend_and_foe 3y ago

So to continue on the example we are running with, you don't believe disagreements like this need to be serviced. So the status quo as it was, say, 20 years ago was perfectly acceptable? Or would you like the status quo today, after the disagreement was serviced in favor of one side of the issue? Basically, are you conveniently deciding that it's not worth discussing now that an outcome you like (I don't know what outcome you like) has become reality, or do you genuinely not give a shit one way or another because it's a non issue to you? On another point, what constitutes a manufactured disagreement and what constitutes a genuine one?

forgetfreeman 3y ago
Perfectly acceptable? Certainly not, but it was provably better than what we're dealing with currently. To be maybe a little clearer I'm asserting that the culture wars writ large, especially as they're framed today, are (soup to nuts) complete bullshit designed specifically to distract the voter base and atomize society. Understand hassling people generally isn't legal, regardless of the root cause, so loudly proclaiming <victim group du jour> shouldn't be hassled is a waste of column inches and everyone's time unless or until someone decides to actually pass legislation based on a demonstrable loophole in current anti-hassle legislation. It's also instructive to note how political organizations that make bitching about people notionally being hassled conveniently let party majority opportunities to actually pass new or update existing legislation quietly slide with no meaningful action taken. This recommends to suspicion that the stated goal and the actual goal are not the same. As to what constitutes a manufactured disagreement, that seems somewhat self-evident. A more familiar term might be "wedge issue". You correctly mention upthread how disagreements on even the most contentious social issues was handled peacefully and arguably with some tact. This is demonstrably no longer the case so my question to you is this: what changed, who changed it, and who's benefiting from the change?