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I think the hardest aspect of learning German as an American from native German speaking instructors is due to the manner in which the language is taught. One

I think the hardest aspect of learning German as an American from native German speaking instructors is due to the manner in which the language is taught. One part of this is the assumption that Americans have some/any familiarity with the language, and that is simply wrong. We are simply not exposed to the German language at all, for obvious reasons. Tangent >> it's also funny how Austria is coded as a Category 3 language while Germany is Category 2 :o

paleotrope 3y ago
Americans aren't even familiar with English.
pavlov 3y ago
One should avoid feeling schadenfreude about how the German language is completely missing from the American zeitgeist.
- madcaptenor 3y ago
  Go have a hamburger and a lager instead.
The_Colonel 3y ago
> it's also funny how Austria is coded as a Category 3 language while Germany is Category 2 :o Honestly, I'm not surprised. German Austrian dialects are quite strong, omnipresent and difficult to learn (few resources apart from going in the streets).
- rightbyte 3y ago
  Then why didn't Switzerland get the Austria treatment? The map or stats are probably just wrong.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I suppose it depends what language you're even using for Switzerland. I can handle the French in Switzerland more or less the same as I can handle French anywhere else (not that great), German and Italian not well at all, and Romansh pretty much non-existently.
  - willsmith72 3y ago
    Swiss German isn't the same as high German
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      Ye I know. I meant that, since if Austrian is considered hard due to dialectal properties, the category of Schweizerdeutsch is surprising.
    - The_Colonel 3y ago
      Swiss standard German is pretty close to the high German. What's difficult are the various Swiss dialects.
  - aredox 3y ago
    Switzerland is also French and Italian-speaking (and English is becoming the linga franca more and more, as even Swiss-Germans don't like to speak actual German ("Hochdeutsch") and prefer Schwyzerdütsch).
- la_fayette 2y ago
  I think this is an error in the article, the original source, doesn't mention that distinction: https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/ https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/
csa 3y ago
> Tangent >> it's also funny how Austria is coded as a Category 3 language while Germany is Category 2 That’s almost certainly the error of the person who colored the map. Maybe they’re thinking of Alemannisch, but I don’t think that’s cat 3 either.
Rinzler89 3y ago
>Tangent >> it's also funny how Austria is coded as a Category 3 language while Germany is Category 2 :o Well, Austrians, much to their national pride, don't really speak German, but they have their own localized dialect forks of it which are more difficult to understand for foreigners who only learned "vanilla" German, so the map is correct in this regard. It's why Arnold Schwarzenegger wasn't allowed to dub his own American movies to German, but the studios got a German actor to voice him since his Styrian dialect was considered too strong for most German speakers. Similar with Swiss German. No matter how well you think you know German, you'll always run into a dialect you won't understand.
- blensor 3y ago
  I mean yes some Austrian dialects are hard, but the grammar is the same in Austria and Germany, and apart from certain words that sometimes confuse the other it's still the same German. Especially at the border you can have German pupils to attend schools in Austria and vice versa and none of them needs a special class for learning the other German language
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    >but the grammar is the same in Austria and Germany, Sure but that's only useful for writing, and quickly becomes irelevant in speaking when you can't understand the dialect because every word is pronounced differently than what you know. Two languages can share the same grammar rules yet be completely different from one another becasue the words themselves are different. >Especially at the border That's a very silly argument. Firstly, border regions between countries often share dialect similarities because d'uh, geographical proximity. A virtual line in the dirt doesn't mean two people will suddenly speak vastly different when they've evolved together for centuries only separated by a few km. And secondly, they're both native German speakers, of course they don't need translators between each others, but that wasn't my point. My point was specifically that foreigners who learn "vanilla" German might end up needing translators when they hear some of those Austrian dialects(maybe Bavarian too, IDK).
    - 3y ago
quercusa 3y ago
I suspect that part of the pain is the requirement to teach English grammar (cases, etc.) before teaching German grammar.
- paleotrope 3y ago
  Exactly this.

paleotrope 3y ago

Americans aren't even familiar with English.

pavlov 3y ago

One should avoid feeling schadenfreude about how the German language is completely missing from the American zeitgeist.

madcaptenor 3y ago
Go have a hamburger and a lager instead.

The_Colonel 3y ago

> it's also funny how Austria is coded as a Category 3 language while Germany is Category 2 :o Honestly, I'm not surprised. German Austrian dialects are quite strong, omnipresent and difficult to learn (few resources apart from going in the streets).

rightbyte 3y ago
Then why didn't Switzerland get the Austria treatment? The map or stats are probably just wrong.
- ghaff 3y ago
  I suppose it depends what language you're even using for Switzerland. I can handle the French in Switzerland more or less the same as I can handle French anywhere else (not that great), German and Italian not well at all, and Romansh pretty much non-existently.
- willsmith72 3y ago
  Swiss German isn't the same as high German
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    Ye I know. I meant that, since if Austrian is considered hard due to dialectal properties, the category of Schweizerdeutsch is surprising.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    Swiss standard German is pretty close to the high German. What's difficult are the various Swiss dialects.
- aredox 3y ago
  Switzerland is also French and Italian-speaking (and English is becoming the linga franca more and more, as even Swiss-Germans don't like to speak actual German ("Hochdeutsch") and prefer Schwyzerdütsch).
la_fayette 2y ago
I think this is an error in the article, the original source, doesn't mention that distinction: https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/ https://www.state.gov/foreign-language-training/

csa 3y ago

> Tangent >> it's also funny how Austria is coded as a Category 3 language while Germany is Category 2 That’s almost certainly the error of the person who colored the map. Maybe they’re thinking of Alemannisch, but I don’t think that’s cat 3 either.

Rinzler89 3y ago

>Tangent >> it's also funny how Austria is coded as a Category 3 language while Germany is Category 2 :o Well, Austrians, much to their national pride, don't really speak German, but they have their own localized dialect forks of it which are more difficult to understand for foreigners who only learned "vanilla" German, so the map is correct in this regard. It's why Arnold Schwarzenegger wasn't allowed to dub his own American movies to German, but the studios got a German actor to voice him since his Styrian dialect was considered too strong for most German speakers. Similar with Swiss German. No matter how well you think you know German, you'll always run into a dialect you won't understand.

blensor 3y ago
I mean yes some Austrian dialects are hard, but the grammar is the same in Austria and Germany, and apart from certain words that sometimes confuse the other it's still the same German. Especially at the border you can have German pupils to attend schools in Austria and vice versa and none of them needs a special class for learning the other German language
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  >but the grammar is the same in Austria and Germany, Sure but that's only useful for writing, and quickly becomes irelevant in speaking when you can't understand the dialect because every word is pronounced differently than what you know. Two languages can share the same grammar rules yet be completely different from one another becasue the words themselves are different. >Especially at the border That's a very silly argument. Firstly, border regions between countries often share dialect similarities because d'uh, geographical proximity. A virtual line in the dirt doesn't mean two people will suddenly speak vastly different when they've evolved together for centuries only separated by a few km. And secondly, they're both native German speakers, of course they don't need translators between each others, but that wasn't my point. My point was specifically that foreigners who learn "vanilla" German might end up needing translators when they hear some of those Austrian dialects(maybe Bavarian too, IDK).
  - 3y ago

quercusa 3y ago

I suspect that part of the pain is the requirement to teach English grammar (cases, etc.) before teaching German grammar.

paleotrope 3y ago
Exactly this.