6 ms·

You have to balk when anyone says that anybody is the same person they were 24 years ago.

by colonelpopcorn 2y ago

erikerikson 2y ago
You have to disbelieve anyone who says they aren't a derivation of their previous person states. That's just physics.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  Oh you have a comprehensive physical model of individual human behavior do you, in particular the decision making process of life-changing choices? I'd love to see the publication.
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    The future is still a function of the past, even if we lack that function's complete specification.
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      Yes, we can believe many things without any proof or justification. We call that religion, not "physics". Edit: this was in response to a prior edit of the parent that (correctly) explicitly stated their position was a personal belief, not some sort of universally acknowledged axiom as they have since edited it to seem.
      - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        The spirit of the edit was for clarity of position, sorry for the misdirection.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      >The future is still a function of the past If you don't believe in conscious choice the whole debate is moot anyway.
      - brabel 2y ago
        That's not the claim. The claim is that if you're born poor, your chances of being poor when you become an adult are much higher. Perhaps you know that and still think that because the kid who is born poor "chose" to stay poor, but I hope no one capable of having a discussion about this topic thinks like that.
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        No, that is not the claim. That is a simple statistical fact that is obvious to anyone who looks at the data. The claim is that folks are nothing more than "a derivation of their previous person states", and that correspondingly there is little to nothing a person can choose to do to escape the path set for them by their start state. I personally think this is blatantly false, and I have many observations to support my position.
        brabel 2y ago
        > folks are nothing more than "a derivation of their previous person states" FFS that's an unbelievably bad interpretation. Are you just trolling or you really can't see the difference between that interpretation and "what we become depends in great part on where we're starting from"??
        __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        My feeling is that dumbo-octopus wants to fight somebody who believes that we have no agency and that socioeconomic conditions entirely determine our future, but it's not working because there's nobody like that nearby.
        2y ago
- geysersam 2y ago
  This is too simplified. What is the state of a person? It's an object of infinite information, the question what aspect you focus on is very non-trivial. You don't have to disbelieve anyone who says a certain aspect of a persons life typically has little influence on their later life. Another issue is that for some a particular event might be life changing and for some the same event might be a nothing burger, for no obvious reason.
  - erikerikson 2y ago
    I agree with you that like the post I responded to that my response is too simplified. I also agree with the post I first responded to that we are, physically or mentally and emotionally, in at least some regards never in the same exact state twice. To clarify my comment, I was attenuating to the causal progression of identity and referencing the physical dimension of that as it is less likely to dissolve into wasteful argument. Once we exist past a day boundary we don't get to be us today without an us yesterday. I admit that the lines of existence and self can be plausibly taken as very fuzzy and I don't want to debate any of that minutiae. My point is that we are the intersection of what we are across all the domains of our being to whatever extent we exist at the times that we do. Confusing ourselves about what we mean by a person doesn't help.
- ClumsyPilot 2y ago
  You have like zero molecules left in your body from 10 years ago. If you are worried about physics, the most important consideration is your diet. And are you really a derivation of your state, or of the things that happen to you? The guys who were drafted into war in Vietnam and then got killed there, was there anything about them that would have made a difference to their cruel fate? If we go by this philosophy, the most import decisions are when you were born, where, and into what environment. For example if you want a house, you should have timed your birth to 30 years ago.
  - thfuran 2y ago
    >If we go by this philosophy, the most import decisions are when you were born, where, and into what environment. Isn't that basically the gist of TFA?
    - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
      TFA? Trifluoroacetic acid? Tenant Farmer Association? Can't find any appropriate acronym
      - AzN1337c0d3r 2y ago
        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TFA https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TFA
- g8oz 2y ago
  Sounds like homeopathy more than physics.
jf22 2y ago
A big part of what makes a person is their unique collection of experiences. You can be the same person but different because of those experiences.

You have to balk when anyone says that anybody is the same person they were 24 years ago.

erikerikson 2y ago

You have to disbelieve anyone who says they aren't a derivation of their previous person states. That's just physics.

dumbo-octopus 2y ago
Oh you have a comprehensive physical model of individual human behavior do you, in particular the decision making process of life-changing choices? I'd love to see the publication.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  The future is still a function of the past, even if we lack that function's complete specification.
  - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
    Yes, we can believe many things without any proof or justification. We call that religion, not "physics". Edit: this was in response to a prior edit of the parent that (correctly) explicitly stated their position was a personal belief, not some sort of universally acknowledged axiom as they have since edited it to seem.
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      The spirit of the edit was for clarity of position, sorry for the misdirection.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >The future is still a function of the past If you don't believe in conscious choice the whole debate is moot anyway.
    - brabel 2y ago
      That's not the claim. The claim is that if you're born poor, your chances of being poor when you become an adult are much higher. Perhaps you know that and still think that because the kid who is born poor "chose" to stay poor, but I hope no one capable of having a discussion about this topic thinks like that.
      - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        No, that is not the claim. That is a simple statistical fact that is obvious to anyone who looks at the data. The claim is that folks are nothing more than "a derivation of their previous person states", and that correspondingly there is little to nothing a person can choose to do to escape the path set for them by their start state. I personally think this is blatantly false, and I have many observations to support my position.
        brabel 2y ago
        > folks are nothing more than "a derivation of their previous person states" FFS that's an unbelievably bad interpretation. Are you just trolling or you really can't see the difference between that interpretation and "what we become depends in great part on where we're starting from"??
        __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        My feeling is that dumbo-octopus wants to fight somebody who believes that we have no agency and that socioeconomic conditions entirely determine our future, but it's not working because there's nobody like that nearby.
        2y ago
geysersam 2y ago
This is too simplified. What is the state of a person? It's an object of infinite information, the question what aspect you focus on is very non-trivial. You don't have to disbelieve anyone who says a certain aspect of a persons life typically has little influence on their later life. Another issue is that for some a particular event might be life changing and for some the same event might be a nothing burger, for no obvious reason.
- erikerikson 2y ago
  I agree with you that like the post I responded to that my response is too simplified. I also agree with the post I first responded to that we are, physically or mentally and emotionally, in at least some regards never in the same exact state twice. To clarify my comment, I was attenuating to the causal progression of identity and referencing the physical dimension of that as it is less likely to dissolve into wasteful argument. Once we exist past a day boundary we don't get to be us today without an us yesterday. I admit that the lines of existence and self can be plausibly taken as very fuzzy and I don't want to debate any of that minutiae. My point is that we are the intersection of what we are across all the domains of our being to whatever extent we exist at the times that we do. Confusing ourselves about what we mean by a person doesn't help.
ClumsyPilot 2y ago
You have like zero molecules left in your body from 10 years ago. If you are worried about physics, the most important consideration is your diet. And are you really a derivation of your state, or of the things that happen to you? The guys who were drafted into war in Vietnam and then got killed there, was there anything about them that would have made a difference to their cruel fate? If we go by this philosophy, the most import decisions are when you were born, where, and into what environment. For example if you want a house, you should have timed your birth to 30 years ago.
- thfuran 2y ago
  >If we go by this philosophy, the most import decisions are when you were born, where, and into what environment. Isn't that basically the gist of TFA?
  - ClumsyPilot 2y ago
    TFA? Trifluoroacetic acid? Tenant Farmer Association? Can't find any appropriate acronym
    - AzN1337c0d3r 2y ago
      https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TFA https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TFA
g8oz 2y ago
Sounds like homeopathy more than physics.

jf22 2y ago

A big part of what makes a person is their unique collection of experiences. You can be the same person but different because of those experiences.