5 ms·

I find Lynch’s works to be very puzzling to unpack. Most analyses which I find compelling have his intentions as a director conveyed within each scene independe

I find Lynch’s works to be very puzzling to unpack. Most analyses which I find compelling have his intentions as a director conveyed within each scene independently, and not really within the larger narrative. Whereas most works seem to have a thesis and then explore them on different levels, Lynch seems to just throw out ideas in different scenes. I would love to unpack what parts of twin peaks were Lynch’s design and what parts were not

wk_end 3y ago
Lynch's work tends to operate on dream logic. And that's how dreams often work - there can be coherent ideas - some random, and some related to concerns in the real world - and there can also be just bizarre, insane, inexplicable stuff.
- vundercind 3y ago
  It’s a bit like the automatic-writing quality of Bob Dylan lyrics (or especially text he’d write for his album covers) but in film form. Similar deal where the “text” is obscure and seems full of puzzles, and you can make connections and draw some conclusions—and certainly a tone, themes, and even a point or message may be communicated clearly—but you can’t count on everything lining up and making logical sense.
- MisterTea 3y ago
  I have the impression that we are observers suddenly thrust into the dream and we, like a detective, must piece together the puzzle. This allows everyone to walk away with a different view which is a far cry from linear plots where everything is wrapped up, concluded - roll credits. Lynch makes you think about his work after they conclude. I know some people who hate his works for this reason. They want a neatly packaged story that doesn't require them to think.
  - robocat 3y ago
    I love surrealism, dreamscapes and many forms of nonsense and randomness. I loath anything that feels like it is on the edge of making sense. I hate searching for hidden meaning in something that doesn't actually have a legible hidden meaning. I suspect some of Lynch's work fits in that category. I'm on the engineer spectrum and I just accept that others rate things that I never will enjoy. Maybe I should learn the appeal of tarot? I vicariously enjoy being around my friend that watches movies non-linearly. I don't understand another friend who watched a popular old movie thousands of times and applied their smarts to analysing it multiple different ways. I don't think I fit your stereotype for people that want a nice linear packaged story they don't need to think about. But maybe I'm overthinking. I do enjoy trying to understand what smart friends intensely direct their thoughts towards: so I would enjoy talking with a friend who loves Mulholland Drive.
    - MisterTea 3y ago
      > I hate searching for hidden meaning in something that doesn't actually have a legible hidden meaning. Like dreams, no? It's not about being a pretentious savant who can analyze his films for deeper meaning but enjoying them for defying the expectations. And you can draw any conclusion you like - from hating it to watching it 1000x and writing a thesis on it and everything in between.
      - robocat 3y ago
        > Like dreams, no? Not really because I don't try to analyse my dreams. I often have AAA vivid dreams in SciFi, fantasy, or outré settings: I absolutely love my stunning inner dreamlife, but I rarely read any meanings into what I see. > but enjoying them for defying the expectations I don't get that pleasure. Even though I do enjoy some freaky movies! For me good surprise breaks and makes its own logical consistency. I want either sense or nonsense: a half-mixture just annoys me.
  - saghm 3y ago
    > I have the impression that we are observers suddenly thrust into the dream and we, like a detective, must piece together the puzzle. > ... > I know some people who hate his works for this reason. They want a neatly packaged story that doesn't require them to think. As someone who isn't particularly into his work, this feels like a false dichotomy to me. There's a middle ground between dream-like sequences that are intentionally ambiguous to the point where the directory refuses to elaborate on a single definitive explanation and everything being blatant and obvious to the point where no thinking is required, and I'd argue that trying to figure something out that does have a single definitive explanation but isn't obvious is far more similar to what a detective would need to figure out. This isn't to say that there's anything wrong with anything Lynch does or with the fact that people enjoy his work, but I think it's unfair to dismiss people who don't feel the same way as not wanting to think at all.
  - DEADMINCE 3y ago
    > They want a neatly packaged story that doesn't require them to think. Or they want something with substance, not just dreams-via-film where even the creator doesn't have any answers or a plan. Anyone can fill in the blanks. It's not really 'thinking', IMO.
- xjay 3y ago
  Random stuff: David Lynch on what lead him to cast the set decorator, Frank Silva, as "Bob" in Twin Peaks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37P0ukg4io0&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37P0ukg4io0&t=40s
rdtsc 3y ago
Lynch is a huge proponent of meditation and even has a foundation promoting it https://www.davidlynchfoundation.org https://www.davidlynchfoundation.org. His ideas and imagery come from there, I would guess. He said somewhere that it's like diving deeper down to catch the bigger fish. So we end up with quite strange, but very detailed and interesting imagery and set of characters. It's also not completely random. There is some loose internal logic and Lynch knows what it is, I feel, but he refuses to explain it. It's part of the fun to try to decipher it. The furniture pieces have some art deco motifs, and look like they would fit into the Twin Peaks universe well. Specifically thinking of Naido's place or fireman's castle on the purple ocean from The Return https://backtotwinpeaks.com/twin-peaks-articles/supernatural-locations-twin-peaks/ https://backtotwinpeaks.com/twin-peaks-articles/supernatural... The idea of places and even furniture, specifically, hosting spirits is also common in Twin Peaks. here I was remembering Josie being stuck in a wooden knob and log lady's husband spirit going into a log.
- adultSwim 3y ago
  David Lynch is not just a fan of meditation, but of the organization Transcendental Meditation (TM). TM engages in many similar questionable practices as Scientology, including recruiting early career celebrities. Jerry Seinfeld is another famous member. I consider it a cult.
  - rdtsc 3y ago
    Well TIL! I only knew about it generally from watching Lynch's stuff, but had no idea it was a cult.
  - sneak 3y ago
    If the similar practices are many, perhaps you could share with us a selection of them? Celebrity endorsements isn't really exclusive to cults. You imply harm is being done. Who is harmed, and how?
    - foobiekr 3y ago
      Are you saying that their claims that they can teach people to levitate are true? https://www.npr.org/2016/06/13/481845003/a-childhood-of-transcendental-meditation-spent-in-the-shadow-of-a-guru?t=1638233866536 https://www.npr.org/2016/06/13/481845003/a-childhood-of-tran... There are plenty of online resources about the cult aspects of TM if you actually look.
azakai 3y ago
> Whereas most works seem to have a thesis and then explore them on different levels, Lynch seems to just throw out ideas in different scenes. Many interpretations come to the exact opposite conclusion: that Lynch starts with a specific idea and then visits it in a different way in each scene. They may seem different, but there is an underlying theme. At least, if those interpretations are right. Here is an example for Inland Empire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkk9GWonTyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkk9GWonTyg Try to ignore that person's overconfidence, he does actually make a good case for his interpretation, I think, showing that the film can be seen as boiling down to one clear main message. (I don't agree with all of his points, but I do think he is on to something.) > I would love to unpack what parts of twin peaks were Lynch’s design and what parts were not Reading Mark Frost's books can help there, as likely Lynch's influence on them is minimal. But it is still hard to unpack, Twin Peaks was really a joint project.
- vundercind 3y ago
  I’d agree, his works tend to treat consistent themes and messages throughout, as I read them. On that level they’re almost hyper coherent, clear, and focused.
_yb2s 3y ago
Being "puzzling to unpack" is the point. His works often try to put the audience into a state of awe, confusion, wonder or other emotional/unconscious mind experiences... which is only possible if he can first subvert your rational conscious minds attempts to pack it into a simple, logical explanation or story. With Lynch, just when you think it's about to make sense, he will take an abrupt turn and completely derail that. Most shows seem to gradually reveal the underlying story/truth as they progress. Twin Peaks is the total opposite of that- it starts out kind-of straightforward, and gets progressively harder to make sense of the more you watch. The owls are not what they seem.
nicklecompte 3y ago
> There is a theory that Lynch himself doesn’t always know what is going on in his stories. He shoots this down. “I need to know for myself what things mean and what’s going on. Sometimes I get ideas, and I don’t know exactly what they mean. So I think about it, and try to figure it out, so I have an answer for myself.” > Audiences, however, must do their own figuring out. “I don’t ever explain it. Because it’s not a word thing. It would reduce it, make it smaller.” These days he rarely gives interviews, not even during the hugely hyped return of Twin Peaks last year – a show that is still debated as either the best or worst TV of 2017. “When you finish anything, people want you to then talk about it. And I think it’s almost like a crime,” he explains. “A film or a painting – each thing is its own sort of language and it’s not right to try to say the same thing in words. The words are not there. The language of film, cinema, is the language it was put into, and the English language – it’s not going to translate. It’s going to lose.” https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/23/david-lynch-gotta-be-selfish-twin-peaks https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/23/david-lynch-got...
- tracerbulletx 3y ago
  It's the difference between listening to someone explain a dream to you and having a dream.
- redder23 3y ago
  I can totally believe that he does not really know what every single hint and stuff in his movies means, that he has a broader general idea and just loves to confuse people in a way. When I was young his movies just blew me away, sadly I think they would not do it in this way today anymore. I am a big fan, but I think it's silly to hunt after every single detail and thing and try to find out "the truth" about what he really meant by it. Just enjoy the movies, have your own thoughts about it, and accept the fact that you will never know. It's a ride, just enjoy it.
colmmacc 3y ago
Twin Perfect has over five hours of Twin Peaks explanation on YouTube ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AYnF5hOhuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AYnF5hOhuM (there are follow on videos too). As a long time Twin Peaks viewer and Wrapped in Plastic subscriber, it all resonated for me. The thesis there is extremely comprehensive and full of examples and the most compelling version I've found. It may spoil it for some, and if you prefer to leave mysteries untouched ... don't watch it, but it also enriched my subsequent rewatches of many Lynch films.
Funes- 3y ago
Lynch embodies the magical spell of art in such a free and aggressively personal form, it's amazing. And for him, that tends to come at the expense of ordinary narrative intelligibility. But it's not only intelligibility between his art and the recipients of his art; it is also between his art and himself. It's not compatible with a cold, purely analytical approach, but rather with one that is necessarily driven by sensitivity and intuition. Trying really hard to really "decode" it is in fact undoing it, as you won't be able to appreciate what it truly is, artistically; instead, and not without lots of work and head-scratching that will get zero confirmation from him, you'll be scrutinizing the bare minimum of linearity and conventionality that you were able to dig up and rearrange, all of which takes a rather functional role in the whole thing, and even then, it'll be so far removed from the experience of the film and its aesthetic essence, that you might as well watch something else. It's like laying eyes on the most beautiful, weird, intricately built, inspiring sculpture, and focusing on taking it apart so you can see what's inside, only to destroy its true form and value.
DEADMINCE 3y ago
> Lynch seems to just throw out ideas in different scenes. Well, that's what he does. He basically adapts his dreams into film. He can't explain much because even he doesn't have the answers. I don't find that a particularly impressive approach to creating art, but he certainly has his fans.
jalapenos 3y ago
It's possible the product he offers is precisely this; he throws things together randomly, carefully avoiding anything making sense, effectively making interesting noise, so that higher IQ people (i.e. vs a marvel movie) with time to kill can indulge in the leisure of trying to make sense of it.

wk_end 3y ago

Lynch's work tends to operate on dream logic. And that's how dreams often work - there can be coherent ideas - some random, and some related to concerns in the real world - and there can also be just bizarre, insane, inexplicable stuff.

vundercind 3y ago
It’s a bit like the automatic-writing quality of Bob Dylan lyrics (or especially text he’d write for his album covers) but in film form. Similar deal where the “text” is obscure and seems full of puzzles, and you can make connections and draw some conclusions—and certainly a tone, themes, and even a point or message may be communicated clearly—but you can’t count on everything lining up and making logical sense.
MisterTea 3y ago
I have the impression that we are observers suddenly thrust into the dream and we, like a detective, must piece together the puzzle. This allows everyone to walk away with a different view which is a far cry from linear plots where everything is wrapped up, concluded - roll credits. Lynch makes you think about his work after they conclude. I know some people who hate his works for this reason. They want a neatly packaged story that doesn't require them to think.
- robocat 3y ago
  I love surrealism, dreamscapes and many forms of nonsense and randomness. I loath anything that feels like it is on the edge of making sense. I hate searching for hidden meaning in something that doesn't actually have a legible hidden meaning. I suspect some of Lynch's work fits in that category. I'm on the engineer spectrum and I just accept that others rate things that I never will enjoy. Maybe I should learn the appeal of tarot? I vicariously enjoy being around my friend that watches movies non-linearly. I don't understand another friend who watched a popular old movie thousands of times and applied their smarts to analysing it multiple different ways. I don't think I fit your stereotype for people that want a nice linear packaged story they don't need to think about. But maybe I'm overthinking. I do enjoy trying to understand what smart friends intensely direct their thoughts towards: so I would enjoy talking with a friend who loves Mulholland Drive.
  - MisterTea 3y ago
    > I hate searching for hidden meaning in something that doesn't actually have a legible hidden meaning. Like dreams, no? It's not about being a pretentious savant who can analyze his films for deeper meaning but enjoying them for defying the expectations. And you can draw any conclusion you like - from hating it to watching it 1000x and writing a thesis on it and everything in between.
    - robocat 3y ago
      > Like dreams, no? Not really because I don't try to analyse my dreams. I often have AAA vivid dreams in SciFi, fantasy, or outré settings: I absolutely love my stunning inner dreamlife, but I rarely read any meanings into what I see. > but enjoying them for defying the expectations I don't get that pleasure. Even though I do enjoy some freaky movies! For me good surprise breaks and makes its own logical consistency. I want either sense or nonsense: a half-mixture just annoys me.
- saghm 3y ago
  > I have the impression that we are observers suddenly thrust into the dream and we, like a detective, must piece together the puzzle. > ... > I know some people who hate his works for this reason. They want a neatly packaged story that doesn't require them to think. As someone who isn't particularly into his work, this feels like a false dichotomy to me. There's a middle ground between dream-like sequences that are intentionally ambiguous to the point where the directory refuses to elaborate on a single definitive explanation and everything being blatant and obvious to the point where no thinking is required, and I'd argue that trying to figure something out that does have a single definitive explanation but isn't obvious is far more similar to what a detective would need to figure out. This isn't to say that there's anything wrong with anything Lynch does or with the fact that people enjoy his work, but I think it's unfair to dismiss people who don't feel the same way as not wanting to think at all.
- DEADMINCE 3y ago
  > They want a neatly packaged story that doesn't require them to think. Or they want something with substance, not just dreams-via-film where even the creator doesn't have any answers or a plan. Anyone can fill in the blanks. It's not really 'thinking', IMO.
xjay 3y ago
Random stuff: David Lynch on what lead him to cast the set decorator, Frank Silva, as "Bob" in Twin Peaks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37P0ukg4io0&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37P0ukg4io0&t=40s

rdtsc 3y ago

Lynch is a huge proponent of meditation and even has a foundation promoting it https://www.davidlynchfoundation.org https://www.davidlynchfoundation.org. His ideas and imagery come from there, I would guess. He said somewhere that it's like diving deeper down to catch the bigger fish. So we end up with quite strange, but very detailed and interesting imagery and set of characters. It's also not completely random. There is some loose internal logic and Lynch knows what it is, I feel, but he refuses to explain it. It's part of the fun to try to decipher it. The furniture pieces have some art deco motifs, and look like they would fit into the Twin Peaks universe well. Specifically thinking of Naido's place or fireman's castle on the purple ocean from The Return https://backtotwinpeaks.com/twin-peaks-articles/supernatural-locations-twin-peaks/ https://backtotwinpeaks.com/twin-peaks-articles/supernatural... The idea of places and even furniture, specifically, hosting spirits is also common in Twin Peaks. here I was remembering Josie being stuck in a wooden knob and log lady's husband spirit going into a log.

adultSwim 3y ago
David Lynch is not just a fan of meditation, but of the organization Transcendental Meditation (TM). TM engages in many similar questionable practices as Scientology, including recruiting early career celebrities. Jerry Seinfeld is another famous member. I consider it a cult.
- rdtsc 3y ago
  Well TIL! I only knew about it generally from watching Lynch's stuff, but had no idea it was a cult.
- sneak 3y ago
  If the similar practices are many, perhaps you could share with us a selection of them? Celebrity endorsements isn't really exclusive to cults. You imply harm is being done. Who is harmed, and how?
  - foobiekr 3y ago
    Are you saying that their claims that they can teach people to levitate are true? https://www.npr.org/2016/06/13/481845003/a-childhood-of-transcendental-meditation-spent-in-the-shadow-of-a-guru?t=1638233866536 https://www.npr.org/2016/06/13/481845003/a-childhood-of-tran... There are plenty of online resources about the cult aspects of TM if you actually look.

azakai 3y ago

> Whereas most works seem to have a thesis and then explore them on different levels, Lynch seems to just throw out ideas in different scenes. Many interpretations come to the exact opposite conclusion: that Lynch starts with a specific idea and then visits it in a different way in each scene. They may seem different, but there is an underlying theme. At least, if those interpretations are right. Here is an example for Inland Empire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkk9GWonTyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkk9GWonTyg Try to ignore that person's overconfidence, he does actually make a good case for his interpretation, I think, showing that the film can be seen as boiling down to one clear main message. (I don't agree with all of his points, but I do think he is on to something.) > I would love to unpack what parts of twin peaks were Lynch’s design and what parts were not Reading Mark Frost's books can help there, as likely Lynch's influence on them is minimal. But it is still hard to unpack, Twin Peaks was really a joint project.

vundercind 3y ago
I’d agree, his works tend to treat consistent themes and messages throughout, as I read them. On that level they’re almost hyper coherent, clear, and focused.

_yb2s 3y ago

Being "puzzling to unpack" is the point. His works often try to put the audience into a state of awe, confusion, wonder or other emotional/unconscious mind experiences... which is only possible if he can first subvert your rational conscious minds attempts to pack it into a simple, logical explanation or story. With Lynch, just when you think it's about to make sense, he will take an abrupt turn and completely derail that. Most shows seem to gradually reveal the underlying story/truth as they progress. Twin Peaks is the total opposite of that- it starts out kind-of straightforward, and gets progressively harder to make sense of the more you watch. The owls are not what they seem.

nicklecompte 3y ago

> There is a theory that Lynch himself doesn’t always know what is going on in his stories. He shoots this down. “I need to know for myself what things mean and what’s going on. Sometimes I get ideas, and I don’t know exactly what they mean. So I think about it, and try to figure it out, so I have an answer for myself.” > Audiences, however, must do their own figuring out. “I don’t ever explain it. Because it’s not a word thing. It would reduce it, make it smaller.” These days he rarely gives interviews, not even during the hugely hyped return of Twin Peaks last year – a show that is still debated as either the best or worst TV of 2017. “When you finish anything, people want you to then talk about it. And I think it’s almost like a crime,” he explains. “A film or a painting – each thing is its own sort of language and it’s not right to try to say the same thing in words. The words are not there. The language of film, cinema, is the language it was put into, and the English language – it’s not going to translate. It’s going to lose.” https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/23/david-lynch-gotta-be-selfish-twin-peaks https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/23/david-lynch-got...

tracerbulletx 3y ago
It's the difference between listening to someone explain a dream to you and having a dream.
redder23 3y ago
I can totally believe that he does not really know what every single hint and stuff in his movies means, that he has a broader general idea and just loves to confuse people in a way. When I was young his movies just blew me away, sadly I think they would not do it in this way today anymore. I am a big fan, but I think it's silly to hunt after every single detail and thing and try to find out "the truth" about what he really meant by it. Just enjoy the movies, have your own thoughts about it, and accept the fact that you will never know. It's a ride, just enjoy it.

colmmacc 3y ago

Twin Perfect has over five hours of Twin Peaks explanation on YouTube ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AYnF5hOhuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AYnF5hOhuM (there are follow on videos too). As a long time Twin Peaks viewer and Wrapped in Plastic subscriber, it all resonated for me. The thesis there is extremely comprehensive and full of examples and the most compelling version I've found. It may spoil it for some, and if you prefer to leave mysteries untouched ... don't watch it, but it also enriched my subsequent rewatches of many Lynch films.

Funes- 3y ago

Lynch embodies the magical spell of art in such a free and aggressively personal form, it's amazing. And for him, that tends to come at the expense of ordinary narrative intelligibility. But it's not only intelligibility between his art and the recipients of his art; it is also between his art and himself. It's not compatible with a cold, purely analytical approach, but rather with one that is necessarily driven by sensitivity and intuition. Trying really hard to really "decode" it is in fact undoing it, as you won't be able to appreciate what it truly is, artistically; instead, and not without lots of work and head-scratching that will get zero confirmation from him, you'll be scrutinizing the bare minimum of linearity and conventionality that you were able to dig up and rearrange, all of which takes a rather functional role in the whole thing, and even then, it'll be so far removed from the experience of the film and its aesthetic essence, that you might as well watch something else. It's like laying eyes on the most beautiful, weird, intricately built, inspiring sculpture, and focusing on taking it apart so you can see what's inside, only to destroy its true form and value.

DEADMINCE 3y ago

> Lynch seems to just throw out ideas in different scenes. Well, that's what he does. He basically adapts his dreams into film. He can't explain much because even he doesn't have the answers. I don't find that a particularly impressive approach to creating art, but he certainly has his fans.

jalapenos 3y ago

It's possible the product he offers is precisely this; he throws things together randomly, carefully avoiding anything making sense, effectively making interesting noise, so that higher IQ people (i.e. vs a marvel movie) with time to kill can indulge in the leisure of trying to make sense of it.