5 ms·

I think it is too early to evaluate Terraform/OpenToFu. They're diverging now and it looks like OpenToFu are bringing on some wanted features.

noodlesUK 3y ago
I agree. It has only been a few months since the split. I have noticed more and more uptake of OpenTofu amongst colleagues, and I've personally switched. The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod.
- waiwai933 3y ago
  That works while OpenTofu and Terraform files are compatible - but once they no longer are, presumably you'd have to standardise on one or the other.
  - xmprt 3y ago
    The point is that once they are no longer compatible, people would standardize on the one that they're familiar with which is most likely the one that's running on their machine.
    - NegativeLatency 3y ago
      There are enough pretty annoying and long standing terraform issues that if opentofu started picking them off I'd consider switching. You can kinda see this with vim and neovim where both are continuing to exist and benefit each other.
      - wlonkly 3y ago
        Encrypted state files are either done or coming soon. That's going to be a big one, since Hashicorp used that as a selling point for Terraform Cloud.
    - waiwai933 3y ago
      But currently, people are equally comfortable with both; the CLI commands are exactly identical between the two, save for the name of the binary itself. In any org where both are in use, if people are forced to choose at some point, they will have to balance many other factors besides familiarity, such as features and confidence in the platform.
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  > The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod. "It works on my machine!" "Then we'll ship your machine" Docker: https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*Ibnwjo9LtUFxRY1MZgOcvg.png https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*Ibnw...
  - kdmccormick 3y ago
    Lol plain old VMs have been shipping your machine since well before Docker was around.
    - TheNewsIsHere 3y ago
      And in some cases, unfortunate git commands will ship your machine too!
- hiatus 3y ago
  > The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod. I disagree—I think support of deployment tooling (like Atlantis) is the bigger proof. If you are running terraform on your local machine it is likely a very small company.
Thev00d00 3y ago
There is no incentive for users of tf to move, consumers are not impacted by the licensing changes. Opentofu hasn't shipped a 1.7 stable with removed blocks yet, whilst terraform is already on 1.8 with provider functions
- cube2222 3y ago
  Hey, tech lead of the project here! Just to clarify, provider-defined functions are coming in OpenTofu 1.7, along with e2e state encryption. Generally, I recommend not comparing version numbers of Terraform and OpenTofu post-1.6. Implementing the e2e state encryption was non-trivial, and we wanted to make sure we get it right, so that's why the release took us a while. We also got a slight additional delay due to needing to handle the C&D letter OpenTofu got from HashiCorp[0], but that's all sorted now. The beta for 1.7 however is coming out this week, with the stable release planned in the next ~3 weeks. [0]: https://opentofu.org/blog/our-response-to-hashicorps-cease-and-desist/ https://opentofu.org/blog/our-response-to-hashicorps-cease-a...
  - vertis 3y ago
    I'm definitely in the camp that has moved my tiny company infra to opentofu. Thanks for all your hard work.
    - cube2222 3y ago
      That’s awesome! Appreciate the kind words :)
      - vertis 3y ago
        In the very early days of Terraform, when it was 2 months or so old I helped a little. How many people did (so much more than me) with all these projects to be later betrayed by relicensing. > git log --pretty=format:"%h %an %ad %s" --date=short | grep "Luke Chadwick" dcd6449245 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Add documentation for elb health_check 0eed0908df Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Add health_check to aws_elb resource 96c05c881a Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Update documentation to include the new user_data attribute on aws_launch_configuration 15bdf8b5f9 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Add user_data to aws_launch_configuration 8d2e232602 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-29 Update documentation to reflect the addition of associate_public_ip_address to the aws_instance resource 974074fee9 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-29 Add associate_public_ip_address as an attribute of the aws_instance resource

noodlesUK 3y ago

I agree. It has only been a few months since the split. I have noticed more and more uptake of OpenTofu amongst colleagues, and I've personally switched. The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod.

waiwai933 3y ago
That works while OpenTofu and Terraform files are compatible - but once they no longer are, presumably you'd have to standardise on one or the other.
- xmprt 3y ago
  The point is that once they are no longer compatible, people would standardize on the one that they're familiar with which is most likely the one that's running on their machine.
  - NegativeLatency 3y ago
    There are enough pretty annoying and long standing terraform issues that if opentofu started picking them off I'd consider switching. You can kinda see this with vim and neovim where both are continuing to exist and benefit each other.
    - wlonkly 3y ago
      Encrypted state files are either done or coming soon. That's going to be a big one, since Hashicorp used that as a selling point for Terraform Cloud.
  - waiwai933 3y ago
    But currently, people are equally comfortable with both; the CLI commands are exactly identical between the two, save for the name of the binary itself. In any org where both are in use, if people are forced to choose at some point, they will have to balance many other factors besides familiarity, such as features and confidence in the platform.
jareklupinski 3y ago
> The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod. "It works on my machine!" "Then we'll ship your machine" Docker: https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*Ibnwjo9LtUFxRY1MZgOcvg.png https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*Ibnw...
- kdmccormick 3y ago
  Lol plain old VMs have been shipping your machine since well before Docker was around.
  - TheNewsIsHere 3y ago
    And in some cases, unfortunate git commands will ship your machine too!
hiatus 3y ago
> The thing that makes the difference is what is running on people's laptops, because that's what people will eventually put into prod. I disagree—I think support of deployment tooling (like Atlantis) is the bigger proof. If you are running terraform on your local machine it is likely a very small company.

Thev00d00 3y ago

There is no incentive for users of tf to move, consumers are not impacted by the licensing changes. Opentofu hasn't shipped a 1.7 stable with removed blocks yet, whilst terraform is already on 1.8 with provider functions

cube2222 3y ago
Hey, tech lead of the project here! Just to clarify, provider-defined functions are coming in OpenTofu 1.7, along with e2e state encryption. Generally, I recommend not comparing version numbers of Terraform and OpenTofu post-1.6. Implementing the e2e state encryption was non-trivial, and we wanted to make sure we get it right, so that's why the release took us a while. We also got a slight additional delay due to needing to handle the C&D letter OpenTofu got from HashiCorp[0], but that's all sorted now. The beta for 1.7 however is coming out this week, with the stable release planned in the next ~3 weeks. [0]: https://opentofu.org/blog/our-response-to-hashicorps-cease-and-desist/ https://opentofu.org/blog/our-response-to-hashicorps-cease-a...
- vertis 3y ago
  I'm definitely in the camp that has moved my tiny company infra to opentofu. Thanks for all your hard work.
  - cube2222 3y ago
    That’s awesome! Appreciate the kind words :)
    - vertis 3y ago
      In the very early days of Terraform, when it was 2 months or so old I helped a little. How many people did (so much more than me) with all these projects to be later betrayed by relicensing. > git log --pretty=format:"%h %an %ad %s" --date=short | grep "Luke Chadwick" dcd6449245 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Add documentation for elb health_check 0eed0908df Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Add health_check to aws_elb resource 96c05c881a Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Update documentation to include the new user_data attribute on aws_launch_configuration 15bdf8b5f9 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-30 Add user_data to aws_launch_configuration 8d2e232602 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-29 Update documentation to reflect the addition of associate_public_ip_address to the aws_instance resource 974074fee9 Luke Chadwick 2014-07-29 Add associate_public_ip_address as an attribute of the aws_instance resource