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This framework is attempting to make PMF seem so hopelessly complicated that you'll need their magic system (pricing unavailable, apply here). Trust me, you do

This framework is attempting to make PMF seem so hopelessly complicated that you'll need their magic system (pricing unavailable, apply here). Trust me, you don't need a system. It's so much simpler than this. First, start with the M, not the P. Talk to real human beings in any market to find a painful problem, create a product that addresses (doesn't need to 100% solve) that problem, and (don't forget this part) charge money for the product. That's it. Anything else is galaxy brain. Don't get distracted.

billmalarky 3y ago
>First, start with the M, not the P. Well said! This is basically the linchpin behind the Jobs to be Done theory commonly attributed to Clayton Christensen (many thought leaders developed the theory over the years which he credits, but Clay seemed to be the leader of the group). The premise of Clay's book "Competing Against Luck" is about this JTBD theory (he also calls "Jobs Theory") which aims to surface the fundamental causality of customer purchase behavior, which allows you to build your solution such that it aligns directly with that behavior instead of all the abstractions and manifestations of that behavior that are often red herrings (ie: pointless features, solutions that in reality not aligned but this is not obvious, etc). Ultimately, Jobs Theory is an approach that that aims to objectively lower risk around innovation. It teaches you to think of customer needs/objectives independently from solutions/technologies, so that it's more natural to innovate to serve the ultimate need rather than compete against preexisting solutions or be misled by customers who are not often able to articulate (or they may not even consciously know what drove their behavior -- it can be very complex) what a better solution for them would be and as such will just mislead you. Instead of taking shots in the dark, you build better solutions around preexisting needs (more accurately called "jobs" in JTBD Theory, and it isn't just semantics). Apologies for nerding out on a topic you probably already know well but I figured I'd add to the conversation for others who might be interested. I really love JTBD. It helps solve imo the single hardest problem around startups -- product/market fit. Read Competing Against Luck folks!
- turnsout 3y ago
  Absolutely! I work in design/innovation consulting, and we use JTBD quite a bit. It's a nice way to interpret user needs and avoid the pitfall of taking user feedback too literally. I view JTBD as a flavor of Human-Centered Design that gives teams structure around the "Desirability" piece of the Desirability / Viability / Feasibility framework. We also hear the advice to "make a painkiller, not a vitamin," which is sort of a JTBD/HCD test in disguise.
  - billmalarky 3y ago
    Is there a way I can connect with you off HN? I'm a student of design/innovation though my background is in engineering. I'd love to be able to learn from you from time to time.
- neom 3y ago
  I'd also recommend Elliot Parker who worked with Clay for a long time. His new book is a great read (I read a pre-print version, but I'd guess they are the same): https://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Innovation-Efficiency-Unleash-Progress/dp/1646871545 https://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Innovation-Efficiency-Unleas...
godzillabrennus 3y ago
Exactly. Technology can be used to solve problems. Understanding a problem is the key. If you don't have the domain expertise to identify the problem you need to speak with stakeholders in the industry to grasp the problem and solve it.
ericmcer 3y ago
The Mom Test is a great book around this. It really helped me (as an engineer) realize that the M part isn't a daunting sales task, it just involves talking to people about what they do. And people like to talk about themselves.

billmalarky 3y ago

>First, start with the M, not the P. Well said! This is basically the linchpin behind the Jobs to be Done theory commonly attributed to Clayton Christensen (many thought leaders developed the theory over the years which he credits, but Clay seemed to be the leader of the group). The premise of Clay's book "Competing Against Luck" is about this JTBD theory (he also calls "Jobs Theory") which aims to surface the fundamental causality of customer purchase behavior, which allows you to build your solution such that it aligns directly with that behavior instead of all the abstractions and manifestations of that behavior that are often red herrings (ie: pointless features, solutions that in reality not aligned but this is not obvious, etc). Ultimately, Jobs Theory is an approach that that aims to objectively lower risk around innovation. It teaches you to think of customer needs/objectives independently from solutions/technologies, so that it's more natural to innovate to serve the ultimate need rather than compete against preexisting solutions or be misled by customers who are not often able to articulate (or they may not even consciously know what drove their behavior -- it can be very complex) what a better solution for them would be and as such will just mislead you. Instead of taking shots in the dark, you build better solutions around preexisting needs (more accurately called "jobs" in JTBD Theory, and it isn't just semantics). Apologies for nerding out on a topic you probably already know well but I figured I'd add to the conversation for others who might be interested. I really love JTBD. It helps solve imo the single hardest problem around startups -- product/market fit. Read Competing Against Luck folks!

turnsout 3y ago
Absolutely! I work in design/innovation consulting, and we use JTBD quite a bit. It's a nice way to interpret user needs and avoid the pitfall of taking user feedback too literally. I view JTBD as a flavor of Human-Centered Design that gives teams structure around the "Desirability" piece of the Desirability / Viability / Feasibility framework. We also hear the advice to "make a painkiller, not a vitamin," which is sort of a JTBD/HCD test in disguise.
- billmalarky 3y ago
  Is there a way I can connect with you off HN? I'm a student of design/innovation though my background is in engineering. I'd love to be able to learn from you from time to time.
neom 3y ago
I'd also recommend Elliot Parker who worked with Clay for a long time. His new book is a great read (I read a pre-print version, but I'd guess they are the same): https://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Innovation-Efficiency-Unleash-Progress/dp/1646871545 https://www.amazon.com/Illusion-Innovation-Efficiency-Unleas...

godzillabrennus 3y ago

Exactly. Technology can be used to solve problems. Understanding a problem is the key. If you don't have the domain expertise to identify the problem you need to speak with stakeholders in the industry to grasp the problem and solve it.

ericmcer 3y ago

The Mom Test is a great book around this. It really helped me (as an engineer) realize that the M part isn't a daunting sales task, it just involves talking to people about what they do. And people like to talk about themselves.