3 ms·

This is implicitly assuming men's expectations are valid and correct, but not women's. The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or b

This is implicitly assuming men's expectations are valid and correct, but not women's. The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or belittle me" and "will consider me an equal participant in the relationship and value my desires accordingly." They haven't misunderstood the situation or made a mistake. Their BATNA is to not have a spouse and they are taking it. Where a generation or two they might have settled for someone who treated them dismissively, but not abusively.

llm_trw 3y ago
>The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or belittle me" and "will consider me an equal participant in the relationship and value my desires accordingly." What you're describing there is a woman's expectation of a man. A man's expectations of a woman have nothing to do with the above. >Their BATNA is to not have a spouse and they are taking it. Interesting claim, let's revisit it when they are in their 50s.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  I'm in my 60s so most of my close acquaintances are in their 40s, 50s and 60s as well actually! The lifelong unmarried women have some what-if type feelings re: children of course but not the misery you're hoping for. None of the rest regret leaving their shitty husbands, or are willing to accept another weak marriage.
  - llm_trw 3y ago
    >children of course but not the misery you're hoping for. It's rather sad that someone as old as you has such a martyrdom complex. The well adjusted of us don't want people to suffer because we disagree with them.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I think both genders' standards have drastically increased, at least since the last time I was dating decades ago. And both genders are now more willing to take the BATNA and not compromise. Society is helping by being more accepting of single people making their own way. It's not an easy life though, for either gender, but we are probably mostly better off.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
  > A man's expectations of a woman have nothing to do with the above. Wut? /u/giraffe_lady pretty much stated a baseline minimum for what you should expect from a partner. Are you honestly stating that you believe (most) men don't expect that from women? Because I certainly do and I have ended relationships with women because I didn't get that baseline standard of treatment.

llm_trw 3y ago

>The standards I'm talking about here are things like "will not mock or belittle me" and "will consider me an equal participant in the relationship and value my desires accordingly." What you're describing there is a woman's expectation of a man. A man's expectations of a woman have nothing to do with the above. >Their BATNA is to not have a spouse and they are taking it. Interesting claim, let's revisit it when they are in their 50s.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
I'm in my 60s so most of my close acquaintances are in their 40s, 50s and 60s as well actually! The lifelong unmarried women have some what-if type feelings re: children of course but not the misery you're hoping for. None of the rest regret leaving their shitty husbands, or are willing to accept another weak marriage.
- llm_trw 3y ago
  >children of course but not the misery you're hoping for. It's rather sad that someone as old as you has such a martyrdom complex. The well adjusted of us don't want people to suffer because we disagree with them.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  I think both genders' standards have drastically increased, at least since the last time I was dating decades ago. And both genders are now more willing to take the BATNA and not compromise. Society is helping by being more accepting of single people making their own way. It's not an easy life though, for either gender, but we are probably mostly better off.
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
> A man's expectations of a woman have nothing to do with the above. Wut? /u/giraffe_lady pretty much stated a baseline minimum for what you should expect from a partner. Are you honestly stating that you believe (most) men don't expect that from women? Because I certainly do and I have ended relationships with women because I didn't get that baseline standard of treatment.