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A lot of the news around this topic seems to suggest this is as a consequence of cost-savings - on what is already an incredibly expensive vehicle. I think most

by deanc 2y ago

A lot of the news around this topic seems to suggest this is as a consequence of cost-savings - on what is already an incredibly expensive vehicle. I think most people buying these trucks are probably not worrying too much about cost in the first place... On a related note, I test-drove a Model 3 last week and was absolutely astonished at how impractical the indicators (blinkers) being on the inside of the wheel were when dealing with roundabouts. Some Tesla-zealot-friends assured me you get used to the muscle memory of where they are, but there is a genuine reason we have had the knobs on the wheel for this - it's always in the same position. Doing a bit of googling after getting home, seems to suggest that them removing the indicator knobs seems to be _also_ as a result of cost-saving.

consp 2y ago
> seems to suggest that them removing the indicator knobs seems to be _also_ as a result of cost-saving So they took the design choices of a Citroen CX? Only with the indicators in a variable position instead of next to the wheel for added difficulty of using it.
- deanc 2y ago
  You can see an image of it here [1]. The indicators are on the left inside of the wheel. Now you can imagine depending on how far you are locking your wheel, how difficult it might be to find those buttons. It's quite possibly the most stupid degradation of user experience I have ever seen in a car - and the sole reason I won't be buying a Model 3 when I'm next in the market for a new car. [1] https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/11/Lead-016-2024-Tesla-Model-3-RWD-Short-Range-2.jpg https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/11/Lead-016-2024-Tes...
  - consp 2y ago
    I'd say anything more than 20 degrees and you have to let lose of your steering wheel to turn on the opposite indicator. Also doesn't work with the recommended method for thurning the steering wheel here as it's designed to keep you hands at the 10/2 (or 9/3) hour positions. Unless you lock 180 degrees and not forget the buttons are reversed.
  - PedroBatista 2y ago
    “Well, you should indicate the direction you’re going before turning the wheel” And with these little boardroom gems is how things get done and justified in any sizable venture. With that the expensive problem of designing, procuring and producing a fair complex and critical part stopped being a problem.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      When exiting a roundabout, it's necessary to indicate while turning. (Except when driving a BMW.)
afavour 2y ago
> this is as a consequence of cost-savings - on what is already an incredibly expensive vehicle. I think most people buying these trucks are probably not worrying too much about cost in the first place... Those aren’t necessarily related. Tesla might look to maximize profits no matter what, so if they can save $20 on pedal fastening they won’t pass that onto the customer, they’ll just pocket the difference.
SilverBirch 2y ago
I think the way it works is actually almost the opposite of what you're saying. The problem is that there's an acceptable price point for a truck like this - say the top spec goes for $100k. What Tesla has done is they've made a bunch of really bad structural decision which means the fundamental cost of building the truck is high. For example the expensive Aluminium and the difficulties working with it. The result is that to get the build cost of the vehicle low enough to make a profit they have to do extreme cost saving everywhere else. So you end up with this massive mismatch where you have this premium material choice in one area that costs so much that they've had to choose to go super aggressive on cost saving practically everywhere else.
SkyPuncher 2y ago
The stupidity of the accessory controls was a huge turnoff for me. Sure, I might get use to them, but I also drive other, normal cars. I don’t want to have to think about my Teslas blinkers being different than literally everything else.
addicted 2y ago
My favorite part of the Model 3 is the suspension. I don’t think I’ve ever had a worse trip in the back seat of a car.
troq13 2y ago
I bet that most of these design decisions were made by the same Chinese manufacturers that design the cheap stuff we buy on eBay. And when China inevitably starts producing a cheaper tesla alternative they will go looking for a spy like they were not the ones who designed it in the first place...

by deanc 2y ago

consp 2y ago

> seems to suggest that them removing the indicator knobs seems to be _also_ as a result of cost-saving So they took the design choices of a Citroen CX? Only with the indicators in a variable position instead of next to the wheel for added difficulty of using it.

deanc 2y ago
You can see an image of it here [1]. The indicators are on the left inside of the wheel. Now you can imagine depending on how far you are locking your wheel, how difficult it might be to find those buttons. It's quite possibly the most stupid degradation of user experience I have ever seen in a car - and the sole reason I won't be buying a Model 3 when I'm next in the market for a new car. [1] https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/11/Lead-016-2024-Tesla-Model-3-RWD-Short-Range-2.jpg https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/11/Lead-016-2024-Tes...
- consp 2y ago
  I'd say anything more than 20 degrees and you have to let lose of your steering wheel to turn on the opposite indicator. Also doesn't work with the recommended method for thurning the steering wheel here as it's designed to keep you hands at the 10/2 (or 9/3) hour positions. Unless you lock 180 degrees and not forget the buttons are reversed.
- PedroBatista 2y ago
  “Well, you should indicate the direction you’re going before turning the wheel” And with these little boardroom gems is how things get done and justified in any sizable venture. With that the expensive problem of designing, procuring and producing a fair complex and critical part stopped being a problem.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    When exiting a roundabout, it's necessary to indicate while turning. (Except when driving a BMW.)

afavour 2y ago

> this is as a consequence of cost-savings - on what is already an incredibly expensive vehicle. I think most people buying these trucks are probably not worrying too much about cost in the first place... Those aren’t necessarily related. Tesla might look to maximize profits no matter what, so if they can save $20 on pedal fastening they won’t pass that onto the customer, they’ll just pocket the difference.

SilverBirch 2y ago

I think the way it works is actually almost the opposite of what you're saying. The problem is that there's an acceptable price point for a truck like this - say the top spec goes for $100k. What Tesla has done is they've made a bunch of really bad structural decision which means the fundamental cost of building the truck is high. For example the expensive Aluminium and the difficulties working with it. The result is that to get the build cost of the vehicle low enough to make a profit they have to do extreme cost saving everywhere else. So you end up with this massive mismatch where you have this premium material choice in one area that costs so much that they've had to choose to go super aggressive on cost saving practically everywhere else.

SkyPuncher 2y ago

The stupidity of the accessory controls was a huge turnoff for me. Sure, I might get use to them, but I also drive other, normal cars. I don’t want to have to think about my Teslas blinkers being different than literally everything else.

addicted 2y ago

My favorite part of the Model 3 is the suspension. I don’t think I’ve ever had a worse trip in the back seat of a car.

troq13 2y ago

I bet that most of these design decisions were made by the same Chinese manufacturers that design the cheap stuff we buy on eBay. And when China inevitably starts producing a cheaper tesla alternative they will go looking for a spy like they were not the ones who designed it in the first place...