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In a petrol engine car you could react by shifting out of gear and flooring the brake pedal (and the clutch pedal if you have one). But what do you do in an ele

by rob74 3y ago

In a petrol engine car you could react by shifting out of gear and flooring the brake pedal (and the clutch pedal if you have one). But what do you do in an electric car? Teslas do have a neutral gear, but it's more and more hidden with every new car generation (according to https://www.notateslaapp.com/tesla-reference/598/how-to-put-a-tesla-in-neutral https://www.notateslaapp.com/tesla-reference/598/how-to-put-..., for some newer models it's only available via the touchscreen). So you have to hope that the brake pedal will override the gas pedal?

PinguTS 3y ago
They have a brake pedal too, like every car. The brake pedal should override the acceleration like in any ICE car. So, technically I don't see any problem.
- close04 3y ago
  > So, technically I don't see any problem If the accelerator getting stuck on a car isn't "technically" a problem then what is? It's a ~3000kg/7000lbs vehicle with 14000Nm/10000lbft of torque and 850HP motor. Whatever your driving style, the expectation is that the car won't accelerate uncontrolled. You may be able to press the brake but then again those extra few fractions of second could make the difference between life and death for someone. "Technically not a problem" is the peak of apologism in such a dangerous situation.
  - PinguTS 3y ago
    The thing is, as I understand it is not like with the Toyota case that the acceleration is unexpected. In the Toyota case it was unexpected because of a software glitch. Actually, it was never really proven that it was an actual software glitch. Michael Barr just has proven that the complete software was a mess without really looking into that detail. Here with the Tesla it is, that when you currently pressing the pedal the top can come off. Then when you don't want to press the pedal anymore, it gets stuck. So that is the moment when your reflex normally is to press the other pedal.
    - close04 3y ago
      > when you currently pressing the pedal the top can come off. Then when you don't want to press the pedal anymore, it gets stuck That is still very dangerous. Tesla stopped deliveries because it's a big deal. In some cases you could have literally an arm's length to stop before you kill someone (like just as you back out of a driveway) and the car accelerating even half a second more than you wanted is too much. I cannot stress enough, this car has high power and extreme torque. It goes from 0-60mph in 2.6s. Even under normal acceleration it will eat quite a bit of extra distance while you react to press the brake. One pedal driving would have braked the moment you took your foot off the accelerator. Normal driving would have at least stopped accelerating. The reason a lot of Tesla drivers were punching through walls and blaming it on the car was because of the stronger than expected acceleration. If that can catch people by surprise, imagine unintended strong acceleration. You are needlessly finding excuses for something very dangerous.
- HenryBemis 3y ago
  > So, technically I don't see any problem. Well the problem _is_ there, so please do see it. The fact that there is a mitigating control does not eliminate the problem, it merely dissipates temporarily (since this is a manual control, once the manual intervention ceases, the problem will re-emerge). The default state is never "pedal to the metal". If something should fail - it should "fail-stop", and not "fail-to-full-throttle".
- aqme28 3y ago
  Being forced to brake while driving can also be very dangerous. How is this not a problem? And I think you're misusing the word "technically" here.
  - chasd00 3y ago
    Braking is fundamental to driving, how is it dangerous? If the gas pedal was stuck to the floor and I was on the highway my first instinct would be to stomp on it a few times to get try and get it dislodged. If that failed, I’d put it in neutral, brake, and pull over somewhere out of the way.
    - aqme28 3y ago
      You're on the highway going 80 with traffic and all of a sudden you have to stop. In the middle of the highway! How is that not dangerous?
      - dzhiurgis 3y ago
        Discussion was gas vs EV braking, op was guessing it's impossible to kill an EV with stuck accelerator... Of course stuck accelerator is dangerous in any situation in any car...
    - EasyMark 3y ago
      braking will succeed if you're on a straight aways most of the time. But on slick roads, curves, etc it can be quite dangerous. Model S & Model X 2021+ Since there is no gear stalk on the 2021+ Model S and Model S, you’ll need to tap the car icon to go to Controls, then tap and hold the Neutral button. This will engage your car into Neutral.
Toutouxc 3y ago
AFAIK pressing the brake pedal should cut the throttle (even most ICE cars do that) and also the brakes should be able to overpower the motors (unless you're doing 200 km/h down a mountain and you melt them before you can stop).
- cmsj 3y ago
  Yep, the brake pedal will cut the throttle, but the throttle will fully re-engage when you lift the brake pedal again, so controlled manoeuvring of the car becomes extremely difficult.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    imo I would hit the brakes and coast to the side the road as soon as possible, then turn off the car.
    - JeremyNT 3y ago
      The driver in the video I saw demonstrating the Tesla issue mentioned he was able to brake and stop the vehicle successfully. The problem is, you don't know when a failure is coming (or more realistically, for most people, they aren't even aware that such a failure mode is possible). It's tough to guess how people respond when panicking, even if their rational brains could devise a solution given a little time to think about it.
      - LinuxBender 3y ago
        Sounds like a need for a "chaos testing mode" where the driver intentionally drives to an empty parking lot and presses the "DO NOT PRESS THIS BUTTON" and enters a password after accepting a bunch of waivers, disclaimers. Then the car does random things and the driver has to react to each thing after having taken a course on "Here are all the known knowns and known unknowns, minus the unknown unknowns". If this does not exist, then I want it to and videos must be uploaded somewhere we can all watch. Please make this happen.
eps 3y ago
In the original video the guy said he pressed the brake pedal and it overrode whatever the gas pedal was doing.

by rob74 3y ago

PinguTS 3y ago

They have a brake pedal too, like every car. The brake pedal should override the acceleration like in any ICE car. So, technically I don't see any problem.

close04 3y ago
> So, technically I don't see any problem If the accelerator getting stuck on a car isn't "technically" a problem then what is? It's a ~3000kg/7000lbs vehicle with 14000Nm/10000lbft of torque and 850HP motor. Whatever your driving style, the expectation is that the car won't accelerate uncontrolled. You may be able to press the brake but then again those extra few fractions of second could make the difference between life and death for someone. "Technically not a problem" is the peak of apologism in such a dangerous situation.
- PinguTS 3y ago
  The thing is, as I understand it is not like with the Toyota case that the acceleration is unexpected. In the Toyota case it was unexpected because of a software glitch. Actually, it was never really proven that it was an actual software glitch. Michael Barr just has proven that the complete software was a mess without really looking into that detail. Here with the Tesla it is, that when you currently pressing the pedal the top can come off. Then when you don't want to press the pedal anymore, it gets stuck. So that is the moment when your reflex normally is to press the other pedal.
  - close04 3y ago
    > when you currently pressing the pedal the top can come off. Then when you don't want to press the pedal anymore, it gets stuck That is still very dangerous. Tesla stopped deliveries because it's a big deal. In some cases you could have literally an arm's length to stop before you kill someone (like just as you back out of a driveway) and the car accelerating even half a second more than you wanted is too much. I cannot stress enough, this car has high power and extreme torque. It goes from 0-60mph in 2.6s. Even under normal acceleration it will eat quite a bit of extra distance while you react to press the brake. One pedal driving would have braked the moment you took your foot off the accelerator. Normal driving would have at least stopped accelerating. The reason a lot of Tesla drivers were punching through walls and blaming it on the car was because of the stronger than expected acceleration. If that can catch people by surprise, imagine unintended strong acceleration. You are needlessly finding excuses for something very dangerous.
HenryBemis 3y ago
> So, technically I don't see any problem. Well the problem _is_ there, so please do see it. The fact that there is a mitigating control does not eliminate the problem, it merely dissipates temporarily (since this is a manual control, once the manual intervention ceases, the problem will re-emerge). The default state is never "pedal to the metal". If something should fail - it should "fail-stop", and not "fail-to-full-throttle".
aqme28 3y ago
Being forced to brake while driving can also be very dangerous. How is this not a problem? And I think you're misusing the word "technically" here.
- chasd00 3y ago
  Braking is fundamental to driving, how is it dangerous? If the gas pedal was stuck to the floor and I was on the highway my first instinct would be to stomp on it a few times to get try and get it dislodged. If that failed, I’d put it in neutral, brake, and pull over somewhere out of the way.
  - aqme28 3y ago
    You're on the highway going 80 with traffic and all of a sudden you have to stop. In the middle of the highway! How is that not dangerous?
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      Discussion was gas vs EV braking, op was guessing it's impossible to kill an EV with stuck accelerator... Of course stuck accelerator is dangerous in any situation in any car...
  - EasyMark 3y ago
    braking will succeed if you're on a straight aways most of the time. But on slick roads, curves, etc it can be quite dangerous. Model S & Model X 2021+ Since there is no gear stalk on the 2021+ Model S and Model S, you’ll need to tap the car icon to go to Controls, then tap and hold the Neutral button. This will engage your car into Neutral.

Toutouxc 3y ago

AFAIK pressing the brake pedal should cut the throttle (even most ICE cars do that) and also the brakes should be able to overpower the motors (unless you're doing 200 km/h down a mountain and you melt them before you can stop).

cmsj 3y ago
Yep, the brake pedal will cut the throttle, but the throttle will fully re-engage when you lift the brake pedal again, so controlled manoeuvring of the car becomes extremely difficult.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  imo I would hit the brakes and coast to the side the road as soon as possible, then turn off the car.
  - JeremyNT 3y ago
    The driver in the video I saw demonstrating the Tesla issue mentioned he was able to brake and stop the vehicle successfully. The problem is, you don't know when a failure is coming (or more realistically, for most people, they aren't even aware that such a failure mode is possible). It's tough to guess how people respond when panicking, even if their rational brains could devise a solution given a little time to think about it.
    - LinuxBender 3y ago
      Sounds like a need for a "chaos testing mode" where the driver intentionally drives to an empty parking lot and presses the "DO NOT PRESS THIS BUTTON" and enters a password after accepting a bunch of waivers, disclaimers. Then the car does random things and the driver has to react to each thing after having taken a course on "Here are all the known knowns and known unknowns, minus the unknown unknowns". If this does not exist, then I want it to and videos must be uploaded somewhere we can all watch. Please make this happen.

eps 3y ago

In the original video the guy said he pressed the brake pedal and it overrode whatever the gas pedal was doing.